All questions we don't have answers to.

As Niamh said, it would be like assuming all Western white people were Christian.

it is a problem within the muslim community, when it was a problem in the Catholic community they were called catholic priests, they weren't called priests because there can be priests in any number of religions and Catholics didn't try to excuse them, like the excuses we are hearing from this community.

Hopefully justice will be served and the victims can begin their road to recovery. It's vile how common stories like this are becoming.

Tbh.

The mention of them being muslim serves no point but to incite hate towards muslims as a whole.

But priests actually work in churches and with followers of said religion. That became a problem within the actual church.

Unless these men are Imam's(?) it's not really the same comparison.

Yes exactly what i was trying to say.

I don't really get that argument because Anglican priests were involved as well but your rarely hear them being referred to, they weren't as prolific but that is not the point.

The worrying thing is the excuses being made so rather than identify with the victims these men were complaining about the use of the word muslim and the fact that they girls should have been looked after as they were deemed to be vulnerable and if someone had looked after them better then this issue wouldn't have arisen.

Who tf is making excuses for these men? That's low tbf Cherie. It's a disgusting crime, these men are disgusting, if anything it's people blaming Muslims as a whole are the ones responsible for taking the focus off the victims.

Regarding Catholic Priests, pretty much all the abuse within the church in Ireland was down to Catholic Priests so that's why it's referred as a Catholic priests here anyway, don't know much about it in England tbh

Niamh I listened to a debate on 5 live yesterday morning, one guy actually said it was the girls fault for not being looked after properly and the rest were more concerned that the word muslim was being used than what happened to the girls, I'm not dreaming this up, maybe there is a podcast you can listen to, its an eye opener.

I thought you meant people in this thread. That sounds terrible though and neither of those opinions are helpful imo

Say Middle-Eastern then to avoid confusion. There is little if any direct evidence that they are Muslim, let alone practicing Muslim, other than their country of cultural origin.

Might they all be. Muslim? Sure. And I also didn't say you "can't" say it, I said it's not helpful, it's counterproductive, it (quite evidently) deviates the discussion away from the actual incident into "yet more Islam stuff". So the question isn't really "why can people not say that?", it's "why are people so desperate to say it" even when it's distracting and damaging to do so.

Like I said, it feels like outrage and indignation are somehow thought to be more moral or valuable than pragmatic solution-seeking.

"I don't care if it isn't helpful I am rly mad about this Muslims issue and I want the world to know just how mad!"

Why?

Even if this is true, does pointing it out do ANYTHING that helps or improves the situation.

That is what people need to start considering. Are they saying things because they are true and it's helpful to go there... or because they have truth in them and it makes them angry. Even if saying it actually makes the situation worse and leads to more victims, not fewer.

To repeat, again, why is everyone (of various opinions) so adamant in insisting that the right to anger / outrage / incredulity is of paramount importance, rather than actually having any interest in real solutions?

Yes Cherie... You might say... It's almost as if clumsy use of poorly selected (yet deliberate and agenda driven) language has distracted from the real topic.

No?

I'm utterly confused as to how you can be saying that I'm wrong in one post, and then providing examples of exactly that happening two posts later.

Cause they dont have much to do with their wives.

Not just priests, nuns, cardinals..probably one or 2 popes...the whole catholic church is riddled with them...ask anyone brought up through the care system in east london.

Oh sure I know Parmnion, there's been so much disgusting stuff un earthed here over the last few years to do with, work houses, mother and baby homes etc all run by the church. No religious organisations should have that much control and power over the poorest and most vulnerable in society imo

Nobody's made excuses for anyone. They're, quite rightly, annoyed with the actual issues being swept under the rug by throwing this latest event into a very large box labelled "Evil Muslims". I think THAT is undermining the real issues.

You did indeed reference race when you mentioned 'white people'. Inferring the issue lies with colour. I don't know why you are calling them middle eastern men, I would imagine they are all British citizens or press coverage would mention they were foreign nationals.

I didn't say on any of my posts that they were all Muslims though I don't know of many Asian men personally who arent. I said the Muslim faith has worrying attitudes towards women and could be part of the problem. You are reading what you want to in that. If you shirk the problems rather than addressing them they continue. If at some point communities or authorities admit there might be a problem perhaps they can begin to address it through education, keep sweeping it under the carpet and you are basically kicking the victims in the teeth.

The 'girls' they target are white Western girls who they deem as worthless,so that tells me it's not to do with religion but race.

It's scary that stuff like this is going on in my city :(

Not Asian, I would rather say Muslim community. You don't have these kinds of sexual abuse problems in the vast majority of other Asian cultures.

How do you know?

I mentioned the "white people can't be racist" thing as another example of rhetoric that promotes backlash; not in any way related to making THIS case about race.

If it helps, I could have used the un-race-related example of the vegan cafe "man tax" thread? i.e. it isn't untrue that there are some inequalities between genders, but addressing it in certain ways promotes unhelpful backlash. That is the entirety of what I'm talking about.

This type of thing doesn't happen in the Hindu community, nor the Sikh. There are no organized Buddhist sex gangs either. Only one common denominator.

They said on the news it is mainly Pakistani Asian men.

And in what way does focussing on this actually help?

Anyone?

No one has managed to answer this yet.