ThisisBigBrother.com - UK TV Forums

ThisisBigBrother.com - UK TV Forums (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/index.php)
-   Serious Debates & News (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=61)
-   -   A lesson in freedom of speech that all Europeans and Canadians need to see (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327971)

user104658 23-08-2017 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liberty4eva (Post 9579941)
Labels are silly. Let's just say I no longer buy into the belief that the Allies in WW2 were all that better than the Nazis. The world ain't black and white. Never was.

Eeeerrrrrrrrr. Whilst war is war and the "blood and bravery" images of WW2 are indeed "made pretty for public consumption", and many of the Allied forces no doubt committed terrible war crimes throughout a long and brutal war, to suggest that they weren't much better than the Nazis is a major, major stretch. Nazi ideology is abhorrent in ways that go far beyond the actual waging of war.

Were German soldiers much worse than Allied soldiers? Probably not; all were following orders and doing as they were expected to do, and many low-level German troops I'm sure absolutely hated what they were being asked to do, just as many Allied soldiers would have, and likewise many on both sides probably loved all of it.

But actual top-level Nazi brass pulling the strings? Actual genetic supremacists? About as close to "evil" as it comes in the real world.

Livia 23-08-2017 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 9579925)
I'd bet good money that what Brillo saw was simply the national flag with arabic of a middle-eastern country (Iraq, Saudi, Yemen etc. have writing on their flags), and not an actual Jihadist black flag.

Not least because an actual ISIS member flying an ISIS flag on their house would be REALLY stupid :think:.

I've seen an actual IS flag several times, although not on a house. I've seen one fixed to the front of a a table in East Ham High Street (junction of Pilgrims Way, to be exact) alongside a man - and I use that term in its loosest possible sense - handing out leaflets and yelling into a bullhorn. I've also seen it being carried during demonstrations. It's as much of a disgrace as flying a Nazi flag on my opinion.

As for the USA, I think people in the States have so many freedoms compared to other places in the world that they imagine Freedom of Speech is something that allows them to do and say things just to antagonise... and we all know that's not the purpose of it.

user104658 23-08-2017 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 9580062)
I've seen an actual IS flag several times, although not on a house. I've seen one fixed to the front of a a table in East Ham High Street (junction of Pilgrims Way, to be exact) alongside a man - and I use that term in its loosest possible sense - handing out leaflets and yelling into a bullhorn. I've also seen it being carried during demonstrations. It's as much of a disgrace as flying a Nazi flag on my opinion.

ISIS and Nazi ideology is pretty much identical anyway, if you think about it. Both are hard right, both are supremacist with the only difference being their definition of what it means to be "chosen" (Nazis it's genetics, ISIS it's religion). Other than that their driving forces and methods they use are chillingly similar. I suppose a major difference is that since Nazis believe in genetic supremacy, they will simply want to wipe out those who aren't like they are... where as ISIS is able and willing to convert those who can be converted and kill those who won't. Which I suppose makes them dangerous in different ways.

Dominic 23-08-2017 11:21 AM

I can agree that some countries are way too extra and make **** like misgendering illegal (which I'm not saying isn't rude/offensive, but it should be apologized for and moved on and not against the law). Buuuuut I don't think free speech should go that far to justify anti-semitism and sympathize with nazis.

MTVN 23-08-2017 11:26 AM

It's pretty concerning when the two examples of free speech that you mention taking pride in are holocaust denial and flying the swastika

Kizzy 23-08-2017 11:29 AM

Personally I can see this country hurtling towards nazi ideology, distancing ourselves from the rest of Europe, media manipulation, fear of experts and intellectuals, restriction of immigration, different rules for foreigners, one 'strong and stable' leader, demonisation of the poor and disabled, distrust and panic spread relating to Muslims.

The signs are there.

Liberty4eva 23-08-2017 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 9580138)
It's pretty concerning when the two examples of free speech that you mention taking pride in are holocaust denial and flying the swastika

I have never voiced support for Nazism in any of my posts. I also take pride that we can burn the American flag if we want to.

user104658 23-08-2017 11:34 AM

So holocaust denial, flying the swastika but you're also ok with burning the US flag? Well that makes it OK I guess... no pattern emerging at all here...

Tom4784 23-08-2017 11:40 AM

Freedom of Speech isn't unconditional, even in the US. Whether it's legal or other consequences, ALL opinions come with consequences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg! (Post 9579903)
It is NOT allowed and you should have reported it as soon as you saw it.

Can't report what didn't happen.

Liberty4eva 23-08-2017 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 9580155)
So holocaust denial, flying the swastika but you're also ok with burning the US flag? Well that makes it OK I guess... no pattern emerging at all here...

The pattern is all of those things I have mentioned are unpopular opinions and expressions. The first amendment does not protect popular forms of speech because popular speech does not need protection. It is unpopular speech that needs protection.

Withano 23-08-2017 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brillopad (Post 9579938)
It was an all black flag

... so not an ISIS flag

Brillopad 23-08-2017 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 9580170)
Freedom of Speech isn't unconditional, even in the US. Whether it's legal or other consequences, ALL opinions come with consequences.



Can't report what didn't happen.

Really. Didn't know you were there. Or is it a habit of yours to call people liars based on no evidence whatsoever.

Brillopad 23-08-2017 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withano (Post 9580194)
... so not an ISIS flag

Alright, what was it then? An all black flag with something written on it flying high on the front of the house.

Withano 23-08-2017 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brillopad (Post 9580207)
Alright, what was it then? An all black flag with something written on it flying high on the front of the house.

Sounds like a fabricated story to further a point. Idk tho.

MB. 23-08-2017 12:06 PM

"I don't believe in labels" is a reasoning used for stuff like sexuality, not "I like the Nazis but I don't want to be called a Nazi", just fyi

Brillopad 23-08-2017 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Withano (Post 9580215)
Sounds like a fabricated story to further a point. Idk tho.

Well it wasn't. That may be something you would do but I wouldn't.

The flag was on the front of a semi on a busy main road on the outskirts of London, somewhere between Chelmsford and London. As previously mentioned the house had metal grates/bars over the windows and front door as well. Thousands must have seen it.

Crimson Dynamo 23-08-2017 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 9580149)
Personally I can see this country hurtling towards nazi ideology, distancing ourselves from the rest of Europe, media manipulation, fear of experts and intellectuals, restriction of immigration, different rules for foreigners, one 'strong and stable' leader, demonisation of the poor and disabled, distrust and panic spread relating to Muslims.

The signs are there.

I think you may be over reacting a smidgeon

Brillopad 23-08-2017 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 9580232)
I think you may be over reacting a smidgeon

Was thinking exactly the same. Just scaremongering in my opinion.

Kizzy 23-08-2017 12:16 PM

I didn't ask anyone to agree, that is my view what you make of it is of no consequence.

Crimson Dynamo 23-08-2017 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 9580247)
I didn't ask anyone to agree, that is my view what you make of it is of no consequence.

"distrust and panic spread relating to Muslims."


Would you agree that the current spate of Muslim terror may have a hand in this?

Kizzy 23-08-2017 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 9580260)
"distrust and panic spread relating to Muslims."


Would you agree that the current spate of Muslim terror may have a hand in this?

So it's Muslim terror, not isis extremist terror? Thanks you're proving my point.

Tom4784 23-08-2017 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brillopad (Post 9580240)
Was thinking exactly the same. Just scaremongering in my opinion.

Yeah, we should ignore things like that and focus on what's REALLY scary, like muslims!

Liberty4eva 23-08-2017 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg! (Post 9579876)
Freedom of speech can go too far. Having a nazi (or ISIS) flag flying should always be illegal

When you start making some forms of expression illegal, it can lead your country down a dark path. Watch this video and tell me if you think this man deserved to be arrested.



I am glad that America has not gone down this pathway yet.

DemolitionRed 23-08-2017 09:29 PM

So this hilarious guy teaches his dog to react when he says "gas the Jews" and you want our reaction to him being arrested? I wonder how many Jews gave the thumbs up to that video.

DemolitionRed 23-08-2017 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brillopad (Post 9580240)
Was thinking exactly the same. Just scaremongering in my opinion.

You mean like you do about Muslims?


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:49 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2025 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.