Oh... Yes, anyone who does THAT sort of borrowing is a straight up idiot. Not least because with creative use of multiple PayPal accounts - you can give YOURSELF a payday loan interest free :shrug:.

As a kid I always made a Christmas list and I inevitably got a few of those things on that list. Our kids did/do the same and they will get an item (or two if its not too expensive) that's on that list. What my kids don't expect is everything on that list. I can't buy their love, it comes without a price ticket.

:worry: you need to start chipping away at it, can you move some if not all of it to an interest free credit card so that you can at least start paying off some of the capital?

Well considering people are supposed to have no money ,people shop as though we are going to war !!! the shops are shut for ONE day,two at most and people just go silly and that's just the food shopping.

Is this based on the total figure of what's been spent?

Probably because, compared to most countries, we get bloody ripped off with everything being quadruple the cost it is anywhere else. :hmph:

But that's still the same thing. If someone uses a credit card or takes out a loan to buy a few nice things for the family at Christmas. As long as they can afford to repay the loan or the repayments then that's their business and entirely fine.

I have a credit card for that reason, it allows me to purchase what I want or need and pay it back at a more convenient time. I don't have it because I don't have the money to buy it.

The people spending what they haven't got and won't be able to pay back are fewer and further between.

The country as a whole can't reduce what it spends, it's up to individuals to do it - if that is what they want.

I've got a feeling (though have no proof) that Christmas has become more serious business in this country, than others, even America. Also I have noticed how other days like Halloween have become much more commercialised in this country in recent years.

:shrug: Our household income will increase dramatically when my wife finishes Uni in 18 months, I'm happy enough coasting along until then. I can't get any decent credit cards until 2019 either because my credit rating is heavily affected by a default in 2013 - £60 on an O2 mobile contract that I thought was finished! (Moved house around the same time, they couldn't or didn't bother to find me, registered it as unpaid... big red mark, ugh) :joker:

Christmas is way over commercialised, and like James said, its spreading rapidly to other events like Easter, Fathers day, Mothers day, Valentines day. All designed to give retailers a boost.

It's up to individuals to be sensible in this regard. People need to budget for the year, not the month or week. Buy what you want, not what you are told you want.

A few years ago, when we went to war in Iraq, one of my friends went out and bought raisins by the trolley load. Why did she do that you ask? Because her granny told her they were in short supply during WW2 :joker:

Christmas can be relatively cheap if you shop well. I have already bought lots of stocking fillers for next year in the sales. I'm lucky at the moment that my son is still quite young and happy with toys, im dreading him wanting all the expensive tech toys. It was quite cute on xmas day when he was talking to my (far richer) brothers kids. They were telling him about the drones, segways and other expensive kit they got and he said "yeah that's cool but I got Gooey Louie....you have to pick his nose". I think as a whole people try and impress others with what they buy and the thought element goes out the window a little

I think the problem of the commercialization of the holidays is exacerbated by the fact that retailers are struggling right now for existence. The holidays is supposed to be family oriented, but to retail it's to bring them into profitability. With more $$ going to online, a lot of companies have had to close up shop(s). Christmas time is one of the few times I will go to a shop now to buy anything really since aside from groceries and self-care products, most of my shopping is done through Amazon now.

The most annoying change though for me in the US is that many shops here now open up on Thanksgiving, which force employees to work on Thanksgiving with no option to opt out. It's a fire-able offense with some companies.

Christmas has always been commercial, but I don't know many people who put Christmas on credit anymore. The younger generations seem to be more cost-conscious, one of the "upsides" of the recession,. I've always thought it was a bit embarrassing to overextend yourself to "impress" others. I've never put Christmas on credit unless it was to save costs (like a sale or something) and it would be paid off in a week or so.

Another change, I remember we had "Lay Away" in the 90's when you could make payments for Christmas gifts months in advance. It went away and then returned post-recession as more people have become cost-conscious. I remember when it was taken away, the claim was because people stopped paying sometimes and then rather than "exclusive" (or high demand) items being sold, they had too much of that product sitting on shelves that it was such a hassle. I guess times have changed.

It does matter though, because when sales are anemic, businesses will cut back on behavior that drives away business (see every ad pull ever). That's how Capitalism is (ideally) managed is through demand. We totally have more power.

The demand is there though with regards to Christmas, and the culture as it is supports the current supply of it. I don't see why we can't take control of our culture and shift it other ways if we wanted, but that would take a concerted effort over a period of time. It wouldn't all up and vanish instantly. :laugh:

All that said, most people wouldn't bother to look away from their smart phone for five seconds much less be "inconvenienced" in order to take such a stand... so I agree your single gesture of non-support is likely moot. :laugh:

I had a credit card once when the kids were small and ended up with about 3000 on it. It wasn't so much gifts that went on credit but the costs of entertainment during summer holidays full of rain and the extortionate cost of having a holiday during the school holidays at all. It felt like a weight dragging me down so I got a loan, paid it off and I've never used credit cards since. If I don't have the money then I can't have the thing. I'm happier this way though I'm very generous and I struggle with that sometimes. I love giving.

what if she ups and leaves you and your student debt :worry:

and takes the 4K TV with her :omgno:

Or if your wage covers the payback of the loan, spread the cost throughout the following year.

We live off our credit cards. We have 0pc interest cards that get payed off at the end of each month. Because they are point scoring cards we earn around £75 each a year which isn't a lot but its a hell of a lot more than any interest we'd make on our debit accounts.

HSBC and Santander both pay 5 per cent on a regulat saver, if you can save the max with either (3,000 or 2,000) you get approx 80.00 or 60.00 not much but better than nothing

One of the greatest gifts you can give children at Christmas is your time - to play games, make snowmen etc

that is what memories are made of long after the presents are forgot

Thats why I got smallest Boy LT lots of PS4 games


so he would not fecking bother me as i get ripped into my chrimbo malts


:idc: