But why? why do you fear Corbyn so much?

I've said to you before, I can't go there.

Superb post.

The thing ignored now is we have an extreme right wing govt in power.
Which is failing miserably.
One whose supporters are allowing it to trample over and add massive undue stress, to the weakest,poorest,sick and disabled.

One of the most sickening and unjust things anyone can do with power is hammer its most vulnerable in society.
Despicable.

Then when anyone speaks out against such vindictiveness and discrimination being enacted against the sick and disabled.
They get called extreme lefties.

Well hey I will happily be an extreme leftie than an extreme right winger,allowing their govt to have the sick and disabled being made to feel further low class citizens.
Rarely if ever saying anything against their govts policies never mind stopping supporting such a cruel hardline govt and PM.

I was brought up with the saying,the only time you should look down on others is when you are helping them back up.
This govt takes away vital support needed for those in dire need,while it protects those who don't need to be.

The ones being referred to as extreme lefties are the ones constantly trying to ram their opinions down people’s throats by trying to shut down their opinions - people quick to label those with differing opinions as far right.

Many people on the left genuinely care about the less advantaged, the sick and disabled as do many on the right but to think that all those on the left, especially those at the extreme end, care and none of those on the right do so is ridiculous. Politics is about a hell of a lot more than that.

How simplistic a view to think the left are all good people and the right are all bad people. People vote for a political party for many different reasons - but the core discussion of this thread is the controlling behaviour and shut-down tactics of the PC far left doing their utmost to censor any opinions that don’t tally with their own and the way in which they do that.

As usual you put your own words in as to what I said which is why I refuse to even try to debate with you.
I never said ALL as in any context.

However continue to do me your biased against me disservice if it gives you that so much pleasure for some reason.
I really don't care a jot what you think, as you with me vice versa too.

The doom and gloom is rather overdone. In the United Nations index of World Happiness, in which data is used to implement policies, Britain comes 19th out of 157 countries, beating the likes of Italy, France, China, Japan, Spain.
There was a 4 point rise from 2016 to 2017.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

Another recent survey by the Office for National Statistics found that our levels of happiness, well being and life satisfaction are higher than ever before.
The truth is we live longer, safer and more comfortable lives than any previous generation.
Of course we have our problems, and still will have no matter which gov. is in power, as the past has demonstrated time and time again.

When you look at the desperate poverty, deprivation and lack of freedom that many countries suffer, we are damn lucky. You'd think that our weakest, poorest, sickest, were all left to deliberately starve and die. Our NHS is pretty darn good despite it's problems and the nations health and economic status is improving...despite the fact that we still haven't recovered from the recession. Count your blessings and hope that the upward trends continue.

The thing is though, if you believe this (and it's almost certainly true), you have to believe the flipside, too. I know you personally hate Corbyn and have your reasons... but, if you're asking for logic / reason / levelheadedness... I think we all know that the chances of the UK becoming some sort of hard-left communist dictatorship off the back of Labour winning a General Election are realistically zero. It just isn't going to happen, is it. Huge shifts like that take cataclysmic events and the honest truth is that if you could fast-forward 10 years under Labour, or 10 years under Tory, and have a look... the country "in broad strokes" would look pretty much the same.

Oh I absolutely agree. There will be no magical economic transformation if Labour gets into power, no matter what his supporters believe. Nor do I think the majority of the UK people would tolerate a dictatorship. I don't believe Corbyn will get in at all, in fact. Thank God.
What I don't like is the current ugly mood as I detailed in my first post in this thread, and I think it would get uglier if he did get in.....and I have other personal reasons why I detest him, shared by a small number of others, and why I would despair if he achieved PM.

The "ugly mood" and tribalism has been at the forefront since long before the Corbyn / May era, though. I mean it's always been there, but I mean this current form of it, was already present when Cameron and Milliband were campaigning. People are being attracted to the extremes, picking a side, and treating it like a "game"... You only have to look at the "ha ha we won we won you lost!" attitudes in the aftermath of each vote to see that. It's not democracy, it's a sports match.

Funny thing is, I think if there was suddenly a completely centrist party, people would flock to them... But the political system is so entrenched that that's an impossible scenario. Any new party is going to be considered to be "unproven" and so people feel duty bound to vote for a "real, established" party even though the majority of people aren't that fond of either. It's a stalemate.

But with that being the case, we MUST continue to flip and flop between the two, no matter which you consider to be the lesser of two evils, the pendulum had to continue to swing. If one party - either of them - starts to feel "untouchable" in terms of retaining power, that's when the real trouble kicks in.

Good saying, I think I'll adopt that one :blush:

Well right wing politics ain't working. Maybe this is worth a try for both main parties. (Not that I'm literally humouring the hyperbole you fell for)

It's a lot uglier now. We didn't have the far left Momentum then with their Marxist ideals....and we didn't have the OTT PC nonsense which is showing a worrying loss of rationality and perspective.
We didn't have transgender activists who call you a fascist if you have the view that a woman and a man are biologically different.
Or the strident keyboard warriors who call you a racist if you feel immigration should be curbed (not that I do personally). Or a sexual abuser if you happened to accidentally brush a woman's knee with your hand.
I'm sure you can think of many more examples.
Twitter and Facebook are used much more now and are a breeding ground for dissent and online witch hunts. The hard left site Skwawkbox, endorsed by Corbyn, feed the young fake news to discredit opposition which they take as gospel.

I really think it's worse....:shrug:

It is getting worse but like I said I think that was inevitable, and it's also not one-sided. People are lurching hard to both "sides" in an almost tribal way. It's a battle... it's a "game"... and the harder one pushes, the more severe the backlash from the other, in a downwards spiral. Yes, all of the things you mention here are true and are problems; but in response, we have Trump as the POTUS, we have emboldened, GENUINE racists abusing the shield of "free speech". We have people basically saying "Damn PC to hell" and believing that they should be able to say literally whatever they want without any legal OR social repercussions (with the former being fair enough, but the latter nonsensical).

All of that said; I actually still think the problem is a very loud, very visible (especially online) minority and most people - other than on their bad days :hee: - are actually sick of ALL of it and want to settle back into a reasonable middle ground.

These are just distractions. Distractions put in place so you don't look up and see what's actually going on. Most of us, I know I do, ignore all this hot air. Its certainly not in my face because I find it boring and trivial so I just shut it off and ignore it. The only time I get annoyed is when I hear a person persistently rant about a race or a certain type of sexuality but other than that I'm a live and let live sort of person.

This isn't the nitty gritty of politics. Its not about how this government is leading our country or how another party would lead it differently. If politics is such a vast subject, why put so much emphasis into such trivial matters when there are much bigger things we should be discussing such as energy, tax, military, the economy, the impending crash, health and social care and any one of the major subjects to do with turning the cogs in the big wheel.

I don't think people pushing to say literally whatever they want is anywhere near as prevalent as people being afraid to literally give honest and even mild opinions without being labelled as some 'ist' or other.
Trump is an extreme exception - an horrific man all round. If Americans continue to tolerate him, then they deserve him. He would never last in the UK.

I do hope you are right in what you say in your last paragraph. A middle ground is certainly needed - and soon.

And there we have it again you equating wanting to reduce immigration with a rant about race. It is you and others that accuse anyone that dare mentions immigration as racist causing half the problems.

Wake up immigration is a huge issue for hundreds of thousands plus in Britain, Europe and the West in general and is a subject very much up for discussion despite all the racist allegations from the shouty few attempting to close people down.

We all have our own areas of interest. What may be a distraction and trivial to you, isn't to others.
This thread isn't a general discussion of the parties and their policies anyway.
Nobody is stopping you from making a thread discussing YOUR areas of interest.

Welcome to my world for about 6 years now I've felt I had no one to vote for. Who'd ever have thought the Tories would be a softer option than Labour which I think is how it stands now. I'll never vote Lib Dems again after their treachery to the students. Corbyn and this shady momentum group have been ringing alarms bells from the get go for me.

I'm your floating voter, the one they need to win and neither party is anywhere near the finish line.

Well well... someones very jittery at the prospect of a left wing govt, they're even attempting to suggest he's too old for the job as if the lobster ripping cigar smoking brandy guzzling stuffed shirts would be any fitter.

What have the right wing and the 'centre' done other than outsource the country into the floor? Time for a new way.

And as for the 'hang the tories' banner that is constantly referenced as a a slight to the left for some reason there is not one scrap of evidence that suggests that that was anything to do with Labour or any Labour affiliates or members so why is it toted as such?
It's a prime example of a tabloidesque demonisation that has no basis in fact but is used to discredit 'the left'... even though when referred to previously I personally stated on hereI did not agree with such language.

Renationalisation is common sense and as it happens the only option as far as I can see, unless we want more foreign investment in our public services and infrastructure... If someone could explain how a sovereign country that is effectively run remotely from another works? Because to me that would be the last thing that anyone who voted brexit wanted! We want to govern our own affairs don't we?... Well, do it then! run our own hospitals, trains, construction and whatever else carrillion has ( govt approved) messed up.

Say whatever you like about the left it is all at this stage scaremongering to maintain the right wing status quo which is about as dire as it gets so I say it's time for another way, take for example the collapse of carriolion were provisions put in place for the pensions of the workforce?... no they were however for the bonuses of the major stakeholders, why? And why is that just taken as acceptable and not causing a national outcry?...
Because in some warped way it's seen as right, it can be done and so it must be right... but it isn't right it's totally corrupt and wrong and our government is to blame here and yet again all we see in the media is LOOK OVER THERE! LOOK WHAT THE LEFTIES ARE DOING NOW! OOOOOOH, THEY'RE TERRIBLE!
It's a smokescreen and in the same old tunnel vision fashion many just can't see the bigger picture here.

Try not to focus to intently on the 'what if's' and look at what is happening right here and right now and ask yourself if it's what you want for your country. If the answer is no then there's an alternative.

Corbyn has the backing of banks, business, he wants brexit but on the social side he wants people to maintain the rights and protections they enjoy today, a decent wage, housing, effective schooling, fair taxes, and access to higher education for all... Who doesn't want that?

Not much point in caring for individuals if, whether by madness or sheer stupidity, the many can be wiped off the face of the earth by a nuclear bomb because he has disarmed the nation.

The world is full of madmen who would see such an act as making Britain easy pickings and would be only too keen to oblige. If he ever makes PM, which I doubt, he should never be allowed such power and put us all at risk like that. That sort of unrealistic idealism is nothing short of mental illness.

And just how in a democracy could he facilitate this?... Again this is just nothing more than a media inspired scare tactic, which you appear to have taken as gospel is going to come to fruition.... That is nothing short of mental illness, believing some fear driven hypothetical!

...yeah I agree, what may seem less important to some could be at the fore front of importance to others..not only in their thoughts but also reflected in how they vote etc...all we can do is respect all of the many factors in engaging in voting and therefore respecting individual opinions in reasons etc...I guess all we can do is discuss as we are doing here, to maybe help in branching out and expanding perspectives to set the old thought processes in motion more to consider ‘bigger pictures’...:laugh:...rather than concentrating focus on one specific aspect, you know...but it’s also a human nature thing to do that too and a perogative to do so for anyone who feels that’s how they’ll cast their vote etc...no party will ‘tick off’ a wish list that will be grand for all, so it starts to be what we feel would be the better option overall in terms of government...

Another great post from you Kizzy.

Needless to say I agree with all you say.
I also agree with Withano in saying right wing policies aren't working.
That is clear,how many targets have been missed and even abandoned by this govt.this last 7+ years.
How many of their own policies are they now dumping.

Their supporters avoid all that,were it a Labour or other govt however,who had been reducing planned growth figures near every budget.
Failing to make near any of their targets and reducing the NHS to the chaos it is in now,with across the board fears from staff,for patient safety.
The same people and the media would be screaming for Labour or that govt.to be out.

The fear of hardline Cons and their hardline supporters are not really what Labour would do,it is that the Cons are more than likely to not have power after the next election,'thankfully in my view'.

They think they should be the only party in power
always with the rest of parliament serving up token opposition
I have loads of usually Conservative supporters as friends, most of whom are dismayed at this govt.
Some could not vote for them in June last year.

This near hysterical venom against Corbyn,is possibly because he looks a winner after all.
He probably could at least lead the largest party at the next election.
The fear of their precious current heartless Cons in cabinet,being turfed out is behind the venom,I THINK.

When and if that happens, I really hope the great many decent and caring Con MPs make sure they take control of their party again.
Scrapping the cruel,heartless and nasty elements that have been far more evident in the current Con party under Cameron and now May.

Anyway,great post Kizzy.
No matter what others think I for one admire your determination and likely more factual posting.

Does Corbyn support unilateral disarmament or not? Are you denying he does?