That's sad but? You think what she said merited her being kidnapped and raped? (again I still think the story is a bit far fetched but assuming it is true)

No it doesn't warrant it, but it makes me have less sympathy.

So words make rape less bad, got it

i get your point, rape is never good, suicide is never good either


so yeah i find it sad for her that she saw ending her life as the only way out of this

Not to play devils advocate.. but you’d surely find the story more sad if the victim was a woman that always showed upmost respect for muslims and was seen by their country as a lovely person

I mean... maybe it shouldnt have been said, but it is unfortunately true.

Not really Withano no, she said - emphasis on "said" some racist things that doesn't lessen my sympathy for her being kidnapped and raped no, not even a bit.

you don't wish bad things on anyone, not even when those say some racist things

true, maybe i just had my own judgemental thoughts based on the bad things she had said, that never really happens to me i know but now i had allowed this getting the best of me


anyway on topic, i just hope we get a good investigation and justice is served to those responsible

fair enough... i just think most people would have a scale of sympathy? Like more people would have more sympathy if this happened to my elderly neighbour than if this happened to Jon Venables... and i would too? I know this woman cant be compared to either, but the scale does unfortunately exist (for me and probably others).

I mean it still doesnt need to be said, it isnt at all helpful, i just agree with josh because i see where hes coming from with his statements, i dont think theyre untrue.

Jon Venables is an abuser himself though and has sexually and physically hurt people

Just to say though, this is all *If* this even happened, the story does seem a bit far fetched imo

I’m aware, and people would have far more sympathy for this dutch politician woman than they would Jon... there is the other end of the spectrum though full of loving and caring innocent humans which Josh pointed out.

I guess Im just explaining why I dont think hes incorrect, i dont actually feel that strongly on this particular debate. Its nowhere near the main issue.

Willie also did some good things honestly, apart from the negative things already mentioned


she did do a lot for handicapped people, standing up for them in political debates wether or not severe handicapped people should work

Well thats great. You’ll have to keep us up to date with the investigation Nicky.

There are some huge accusations, it will interesting to hear how they develop.

i agree with you, huge accusations but here we usually make these accusations before we go and find enough evidence to back our theories up

my country is a huge mess, also whenever people go missing here we immediately assume the worst of murder and kidnapping when it sometimes gets good endings like just runaway teens


i am a bit ashamed of that here, that's why i look up to the american authorities, they are really great at finding evidence and only making accusations when they have the evidence for this

I guess it's feasible that it really happened to her and that caused her to become depressed and take her own life. But then, as she vocally hated Muslims, it's also feasible that she was mentally unwell and that manifested firstly as her creating the story about the abduction and attack, and then later taking her life. Which to be honest seems more realistic to me. Especially as it states that she continued her job as normal next day, and it would be nearly impossible for most people to carry on doing so without seeming visibly distressed / in shock after an incident like that.

Though that's supposition and in the absence of an investigation / evidence, it's not really possible to say what has actually happened.

I agree she is (was) free to think and say what she wants in that country I think , whether or not other people like it or not, it does not make what happened to her any more easier to stomach , plus ,would it enable what she said invalid to her family, friends etc,? I don't think so ,they probably have that hate even more now. the rapists have probably reinforced some peoples feelings of them.

Well yes *if* this is true (and I again I want to reiterate that I don't necessarily believe it is based on the limited information we have) It's extremely disgusting and worrying, having gangs of men going around punishing women by raping them for saying stuff they don't like. This is why I found the comments about not having sympathy for her pretty tasteless

Nobody said they didnt have sympathy, and you acknowledged why people would have less sympathy if this happened to Venables?

It is a pretty tasteless thing to discuss.. but you have implied you agreed on some level.

If the same thing happened to someone who did that to someone else, that isn't comparable at all but whatever

It is though, you are acknowledging the scale of sympathy that was brought up.

Unless you’re saying yours is more of a ‘yes or no’ instead of a scale, i dont see the difference between what you and josh have said.

But even then if you have a yes or no filter, and others have a slider scale, is it that much of a difference anyway?

Ugh Withano, I really have had enough of this argument. I don't think saying anything makes anyone more deserving to be raped than anyone else. End of discussion for me, carry on arguing with yourself if you like though.

But.. you brought it up again, not me haha.. and your stance isnt clear because youre kind of backtracking on a case like venables.

I sort of struggle to believe anybody would have the same level of sympathy across the board for somebody like venables, somebody like this politician, and somebody like my lovely elderly neighbour. Thats just not how human emotions work.

Thats three very clear different levels of sympathy for me, but if yours is a ‘no, yes, yes’ or a ‘yes, yes, yes’ i get that too... i just dont think anything that was said was technically incorrect.

I'm not back tracking at all, you brought up Venables not me, I would never say anyone deserved to be raped and I think if you read back my posts I didn't actually say that he would deserve to be raped more, I just said that he was guilty of doing something similar

Nobody deserves to be raped more, nobody said that! All that was said is about a level of sympathy.

And im struggling to believe anybody would have the same amount of sympathy for the three examples i used in my last post...

I also said nothing about sympathy to do with JV so please don't put words in my mouth, you drop a name and then tell me I said it. I didn't and wouldn't.