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-   -   Scarlett Johanssen's casting controversy (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=359403)

Alf 19-07-2019 08:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 10633052)
How so?

How do you differentiate between seeing a minority on screen and concluding "a diversity box" and seeing a minority and concluding "actor won the role on merit".

And don't say "the bad ones" because there's plenty of poor actors across the board.
Which film critic is gonna be negative towards somebody considered a minority without risking being labeled a bigot?

Marsh. 19-07-2019 08:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf (Post 10633087)
Which film critic is gonna be negative towards somebody considered a minority without risking being labeled a bigot?
Every critic going?

You think a black actor has never been criticised?

Unless you mean a critic is not going to come out with "This minority only got cast because they are a minority" then you're right, that's bigoted.

Tom4784 19-07-2019 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf (Post 10633087)
Which film critic is gonna be negative towards somebody considered a minority without risking being labeled a bigot?
Are you suggesting that film critics don't critique minority actors and films in the same way as other actors and films? 'Cus if so then that's a load of ****. Pretty much every Tyler Perry Film gets slaughtered by the critics, Will Smith hasn't had a well received film in years and most recently, the Aladdin remake got slated despite featuring an almost entirely ethnic minority cast. Ghostbusters got slated, Ocean's 8 didn't get a warm reception etc. Need me to keep going?

Normal people don't worry about being seen as bigoted because we know we aren't, it's only a worry for the self aware bigot.

I think your whole 'PC is ruining Hollywood!' argument is based on nothing.

Alf 19-07-2019 08:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 10633093)
Every critic going?

You think a black actor has never been criticised?

Unless you mean a critic is not going to come out with "This minority only got cast because they are a minority" then you're right, that's bigoted.
Any Black actor that has been criticised, you can bet the person was labeled a racist for doing so.

Alf 19-07-2019 08:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 10633128)
Except that didn't happen.
Except every year a Black person doesn't win an Oscar.

Marsh. 19-07-2019 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf (Post 10633137)
Except every year a Black person doesn't win an Oscar.
That's never happened.

People have (rightly) commented on the entire spectrum of nominations each year being so white. Which is a symptom of the screen itself lacking diversity.

But I suppose it's just a coincidence that the very best of the best in the film industry are white. :think:

Marsh. 19-07-2019 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W (Post 10633071)
It's not positive or negative, just something that is.
Nope, definitely positive. Diversity increases the amount of different perspectives/stories making it to screen. Nobody wants to have the same meal three times a day, every day.

Mystic Mock 19-07-2019 09:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 10632669)
The story is a few days old but it's one that promotes an interesting conversation. For the sake of clarity, ScarJo has since clarified her comments to essentially say that acting should be free of political correctness and that it's an actor's job to embody someone other than themselves.

When it comes to race, I think racebending is fine as long as the character's race isn't an important part of the story but I don't think a white person should ever play a black character or a black character play an asian person ETC. The creator of Ghost in the Shell actually supported her casting but I remember feeling uncomfortable when she went around calling herself 'Motoko Kusanagi'. I think there's wriggle room when it comes to stories like Ghost in the Shell but I just think that film handled it poorly. I think Altered Carbon did a better job of telling that kind of story better.

I do disagree with controversies surrounding cisgendered actors portraying trans characters though. I think it's great if you can cast a trans person in the role but I think the story is often more important than the actor portraying it. I also think there's a certain level of hypocrisy in the reaction to Scarlett being cast in that film that was highlighted well by Sonique who is a trans drag queen who basically made the point of saying that a lot of trans people complain if they are only considered for trans roles so if they want to play cisgendered roles then they can't really oppose the opposite either.

Same with sexuality really, there was a film released a year or two ago called Love, Simon and that got hit with a lot of controversy from the LGBT community because the lead wasn't a gay actor and I find that ridiculous. Actors shouldn't be limited to only playing their sexuality and actors shouldn't be typecast for it either.
All of this tbh.

armand.kay 19-07-2019 09:58 PM
Do you guys really think a show like Pose could work if Blanca was played by ****ing Scarjo? imo there's a certain authenticity that is lost when cis people take on trans roles. Like i understand it when its a movie like The Danish Girl, where we follow someone transitioning, then it makes sense to hire a cis actor. However, if it's any other trans story I really don't why you can't just take the time out to hire quality trans actors and if that's not something you're willing to do then are you really the right person to be telling this story.

Marsh. 19-07-2019 10:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by armand.kay (Post 10633309)
Do you guys really think a show like Pose could work if Blanca was played by ****ing Scarjo? imo there's a certain authenticity that is lost when cis people take on trans roles. Like i understand it when its a movie like The Danish Girl, where we follow someone transitioning, then it makes sense to hire a cis actor. However, if it's any other trans story I really don't why you can't just take the time out to hire quality trans actors and if that's not something you're willing to do then are you really the right person to be telling this story.
Well, I think that's the point, it entirely depends on the project/story. It shouldn't be a blanket rule that cis play cis, trans play trans, gay play gay etc. It should be down to the individual project and what is the best way to tell the story.

Twosugars 19-07-2019 10:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf (Post 10632954)
Hollywood is currently in its worst state in history. The art of film making has, like many other things, been infested with political correctness, and political correctness ruins everything.
Nothing to do with political correctness. It's about accurate representation of society, opportunities for underrepresented sections of society.
It's kind of sad you don't get it bc it's long overdue and it's here to stay.
You'll still get you straight white male flicks don't worry. But those will never again be the whole of the cinema.

Oliver_W 19-07-2019 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 10633283)
Nope, definitely positive. Diversity increases the amount of different perspectives/stories making it to screen. Nobody wants to have the same meal three times a day, every day.
If a producer comes up with a good story and it gets made, then sure. But this shouldn't happen because higher-ups mandated their position into existence. If it happens through a meritocracy, then great!

Marsh. 19-07-2019 10:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W (Post 10633330)
If a producer comes up with a good story and it gets made, then sure. But this shouldn't happen because higher-ups mandated their position into existence. If it happens through a meritocracy, then great!
Think the point went over your head a little.

Their stories have to be forced through, at least initially, or they'll never get made at all. Then once talented minorities have been given those opportunities the representation and growth happens naturally. The same as it has done for the majority.

If things just stayed as they were, then the writers would still be the same people, the producers still the same people, all writing from the same vantage points and experiences. Change does not occur naturally, it needs a little nudge.

The only way it would be in anyway a "negative" would be if it was taking opportunities away from a group of people, which judging what we see on screens and in the cinema has not happened, the majority still have... the majority.

The old "If they come up with a story then... great" didn't work out so well when... next to nothing was making it through the commission process.

Tom4784 19-07-2019 10:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by armand.kay (Post 10633309)
Do you guys really think a show like Pose could work if Blanca was played by ****ing Scarjo? imo there's a certain authenticity that is lost when cis people take on trans roles. Like i understand it when its a movie like The Danish Girl, where we follow someone transitioning, then it makes sense to hire a cis actor. However, if it's any other trans story I really don't why you can't just take the time out to hire quality trans actors and if that's not something you're willing to do then are you really the right person to be telling this story.
Depends on the project, as it's been said it's not a blanket rule. Sometimes the best choice will be a trans actor, other times it won't. What's more important is the ability to embody the story and struggle of their characters and great actors can do that regardless of their gender status.

Oliver_W 19-07-2019 10:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 10633331)
If things just stayed as they were, then the writers would still be the same people, the producers still the same people, all writing from the same vantage points and experiences. Change does not occur naturally, it needs a little nudge.
It's not the 1960s anymore, meritocracies work, everyone is on even footing - as it should be :)

Twosugars 19-07-2019 10:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W (Post 10633349)
It's not the 1960s anymore, meritocracies work, everyone is on even footing - as it should be :)
:laugh:
That's at best naive

Marsh. 19-07-2019 10:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_W (Post 10633349)
It's not the 1960s anymore, meritocracies work, everyone is on even footing - as it should be :)
Except they're not - hence the imbalance.

If everyone was on equal footing, there would be no lack of representation.

"Hired on merit" pertaining to the same "majority" is not even close to equal.

Alf 19-07-2019 10:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twosugars (Post 10633324)
Nothing to do with political correctness. It's about accurate representation of society, opportunities for underrepresented sections of society.
It's kind of sad you don't get it bc it's long overdue and it's here to stay.
You'll still get you straight white male flicks don't worry. But those will never again be the whole of the cinema.
Straight White Male flicks have always been in the minority in cinema, just that nobody was crying about it.

Nollywood, Bollywood, Hong Kong, Japan Ect, the representation of White men in their movies would give you a heart attack.

Marsh. 19-07-2019 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alf (Post 10633366)
Straight White Male flicks have always been in the minority in cinema
:joker::joker::joker:

Northern Monkey 19-07-2019 10:56 PM
All roles should be open to any actor or actress as long as they’re right for the part.

Ammi 20-07-2019 05:32 AM
...so is it a transitioning character in Ghost Shell... and she pulled out of playing the part..?..


..I don’t know, I guess transgender is still quite controversial to some of society..so it would seem that the most important thing would be to have an actor who could break through that in terms of their relatability/popularity...the part would need someone who would greatly inspire thoughts and have the audience feel totally invested in the character being portrayed...we had that with Danish Girl...

Ammi 20-07-2019 06:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dezzy (Post 10632669)
The story is a few days old but it's one that promotes an interesting conversation. For the sake of clarity, ScarJo has since clarified her comments to essentially say that acting should be free of political correctness and that it's an actor's job to embody someone other than themselves.

When it comes to race, I think racebending is fine as long as the character's race isn't an important part of the story but I don't think a white person should ever play a black character or a black character play an asian person ETC. The creator of Ghost in the Shell actually supported her casting but I remember feeling uncomfortable when she went around calling herself 'Motoko Kusanagi'. I think there's wriggle room when it comes to stories like Ghost in the Shell but I just think that film handled it poorly. I think Altered Carbon did a better job of telling that kind of story better.

I do disagree with controversies surrounding cisgendered actors portraying trans characters though. I think it's great if you can cast a trans person in the role but I think the story is often more important than the actor portraying it. I also think there's a certain level of hypocrisy in the reaction to Scarlett being cast in that film that was highlighted well by Sonique who is a trans drag queen who basically made the point of saying that a lot of trans people complain if they are only considered for trans roles so if they want to play cisgendered roles then they can't really oppose the opposite either.

Same with sexuality really, there was a film released a year or two ago called Love, Simon and that got hit with a lot of controversy from the LGBT community because the lead wasn't a gay actor and I find that ridiculous. Actors shouldn't be limited to only playing their sexuality and actors shouldn't be typecast for it either.
...oh sorry, I think I got completely wrong what the thread is...:laugh:..I need to shake myself awake this morning...hmmmm, with Love Simon for instance...?....I can see how sexuality wouldn’t be important for the part, it was left open for any sexuality to play...I haven’t seen the movie but that’s what I’m thinking...?...and yeah in an ideal movie world, as it were...that would be the way...but is it also about the limitation that some actors feel in that they’re only being cast in certain roles, which might feel to them as a bit ‘stereotypical’....because the diversity just isn’t being written or if it is then it’s just not being open to the same consideration for all actors....?...which is what some in The movie industry have been saying for many years...

bots 20-07-2019 06:51 AM
The acting profession has been an unfair playground for generations, this is but one small facet of a much larger issue. Logic would suggest that the best person qualified for the role would get it, but that rarely (if ever) happens. It's always about who is the biggest box office draw or who is "best friends" with the director etc. I find it difficult to take the acting profession seriously until those issues are sorted out.

Ammi 20-07-2019 07:35 AM
...I think it’s progressing though in that there are more and more ‘unknowns’ cast in big roles and those movies are showing huge successes ...which encourages that progression to continue...but I guess, is it more that Scarlett for instance and so, so many other actresses could be cast for so many varied roles, including transgender...but would a transgender person have the same scope or would they be pigeon-holed more..?...

Oliver_W 20-07-2019 08:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsh. (Post 10633361)
Except they're not - hence the imbalance.

If everyone was on equal footing, there would be no lack of representation.

"Hired on merit" pertaining to the same "majority" is not even close to equal.
But there isn't a lack of representation anymore, what have you been watching?


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