everyone knows that the bbc news content has been dreadful for years. It's a public service not a voice piece to support a specific agenda

This is dated rhetoric; you can't shut down this debate by calling people patronising or telling them that they have no place in it any more, it's not 2017. You can debate the topic on the facts and on it's merits and on hard evidence of what is actually best practice with good outcomes or ... :shrug: I guess you're free to soap-box but it's not part of the debate is it. Not worth listening to.

No one is opposing trans rights, people are opposing the idea that academic discussion and a committment to evidence-based best practice is akin to oppossing rights. I know there are people who would like to claim that any discussion = opposition. Those people are either disingenuous or simply lack a basic understanding of academic discourse, or an understanding that policy needs to be informed by said academic discourse (and not "I feel..." statements) to be worth the paper it's written on. None of that is anyone's problem other than their own.

The sentiment that "if you have concerns about one you have concerns about all" is simply a flat-out false narrative; it simply has to be, because there are plenty of gay people (especially gay women) who have MASSIVE concerns that they would like to have addressed, and I have seen many of these women attacked and harrassed horrendously. This "one is all" line is little more than the same dogma everyone has heard many times over. Women have concerns. Lesbian women have concerns. Those concerns can't continue to be swept away (mostly by gay men, in a sad irony of complex privilege) under a banner heading of "any concern = transphobia". It's a ****ing lie.

I'll ignore the banal ad-hominem and ask if you're claiming that autogynephilic fetishism doesn't exist, because I didn't suggest for a second that this is the root of transexuality or that it's anything other than a small fringe group. They are in the minority but to suggest they don't exist is objectively false and everyone either knows it or is wearing blinkers because there have been a number of high-profile examples, as well as many dedicated forums and subreddits. It's also true that that small fringe group USES the "stonewalling" of the trans rights debate as a shield against something entirely different and I can think of no feasible reason that genuine trans people wouldn't be more angry about that than they are about the people who have concerns about it. But you're right, they're free to feel how they feel about whatever they want to feel anything about.

As are we all.

To outright say ‘nobody is opposing trans rights’ is either knowingly a complete lie, or at least incredible naivety

I'm referring to this debate/this thread where no one has stated anything that is in opposition to trans rights, and the decision of the BBC to seek guidance from avenues other than Stonewall, which is also not an action in opposition to trans rights (in fact in my opinion, continuing down the path Stonewall is set on is has already been incredibly damaging to rights across the board and this will continue to snowball - however that part is subjective).

I was obviously not saying "no one anywhere ever opposes trans rights", but I apologise if that wasn't clear. I'm also not saying that no one on this forum or who has posted on this thread opposes trans rights. Just that nothing that has been posted on this thread is in opposition to the concept of trans rights.

Thing is, LGBT people have all the legal rights we actually need. So what are "activist" corporations going to do - call it a day and shut shop? Of course not.

So they need to invent issues to keep on banging the drum about. And they are basically genius conartists for coming up with their diversity index - not only do companies have to pay to be included on it, they can include their standing by giving Stonewall more money in exchange for poxy courses!

They're no better than any other fatcat corporations.

People who care for the rights of lesbians should be calling to protect lesbian spaces (and woman only spaces in general) which are compromised by the inclusion of transwomen.

Stonewall don't seem to be doing anything to address or help this. They're effectively useless at anything but pushing gender ideology.

I’m not trying to tell anyone anything about the history of gay rights or stonewall by the way - transpeople and stonewall playing a large role in the history of gay rights has absolutely nothing to do with the current situations surrounding self-ID, the medical implications of Stonewall’s stances when advising within health services, the absolutely abysmal mounting situation with young people, children and mental health when it comes to gender identity politics (especially teenage girls), the ludicrous situation where gender ideology is “off the table” for academic discussion, the situation in sports, the situation with hormone prescription… the list is endless and in dire need of discussion.

But no it makes people feel anxious or triggered or whatever so let’s throw around insults like children and take it off the table.

Madness.

What's "the LGB"? I have no idea what every lesbian, gay, and bisexual is doing.

Why can’t straight men have an opinion...they will have women in their lives who this affects ...who knows they might even have LGBTQ relatives...gasp

When have the right ever cared about women lmao? They’ve spent the last few decades trying to outlaw abortion. Be careful who you lay your bed with

What does "the right" have to do with anything?

This isn’t a political issue ...

Exactly. I would say I'm left leaning but every issue is different, we've lost all sense of critical thinking if we have to agree with the party line on every issue without using our own brains and life experience to form an opinion. Following the accepted views from one "side" without question is the definition of being a sheep

One might even say expecting women to give up their rights for males is pretty right wing :hehe:

Yeah, at the end of the day my only interest in this topic is women's rights, I don't care about left or right, I care about safety and fairness for women.

Expecting transwomen to have access to female spaces is asking women to give up woman-only spaces.

At the absolute minimum, women have the right to open academic debate before changes are made to protections that were put into place specifically for women (hard-won protections, one might add) and an open and honest examination of the evidence base for it being a) safe and b) necessary... plus the right to offer counterpoints to that debate without being attacked or harrassed (or doxxed, or fired) for it.

That is not currently on offer. Debate is labelled hateful and transphobic by its very existence.

I'm not even conservative (in the literal sense) on this topic I think there are probably solutions and compromises that make things safer and fairer across the board - it's not as though things couldn't be improved regardless so why would anyone strictly want things to stay just as they are - but that place simply can't be reached without allowing research and debate. If there's no impact on women's rights then allow robust, peer-reviewed literature to show that there's no impact on women's rights and then you can state that there isn't with some actual gravitas. Until then there's just no realistic justification that it's reasonable to expect anyone to blindly accept.

not true