Hispanics in particular, when I was young anyway (late 90s, early 00s): There wasn't a Conservative vs Liberal, so there was no self-identification along party lines. Instead, many just didn't vote :spin: or they voted for certain issues... or out of anger at something like many back then... or based on religious grounds. The last was critical for some.
The differences between D and R were completely irrelevant to them, at least in Texas. But, we always saw the same candidates who would come to pander how they were going to do XYZ. Some of what did get done and was praised..but often nothing got done. Some were Hispanic, sure, but in many cases not always.
When we did hear about the vote, it tended to be certain candidates by name as they were treated familiarity by the community. Never party affiliation. It wasn't until I moved up to the East Coast where people were more visceral about D vs R and actually I was introduced to what is now considered identity politics formally through TiBB funnily enough :spin:... it was only in listening to chats here I made connections to some of the interactions and views I'd heard expressed when living up near DC, that I even began to learn the critical differences, because there is often no difference for people back home. After all, "they're all politicians... they all lie", etc... Anyway, I had always seen politics through a class POV, especially given my background.
The belief that Hispanics automatically supports illegal immigration is an odd one, for sure. Hispanics are not uniquely for or against illegal immigration, per say. It's complicated for sure. There's many who are integrated who are actually against not sending back those who commit crime because of what they bring, but also because their poor work ethic makes the whole community look bad. I remember there always being families that that one member who sits around all day drinking and even getting into actual fights and so it's embarrassing for them.. they're not legal obviously and "just visiting". (Sometimes they do go back, actually, because the family is tired of putting up with it and they don't pay rent anyway, etc...)
The feeling is many just want fairness, a fair shot and to be recognized as hardworking. Many things that had been said about crossing the border, for example, they weren't being given a fair shot where they came from. Translation: In Mexico, there is no ladder or sense of fairness. You're on your own if you want to survive and even then good luck... there's no education there in the sense that I think most would even begin to apply legally, especially with how diverse Mexico is culturally and the lack of mixing there. Whereas in the communities here, the resources generated are being advertised towards them in a way that is easier to help with the process once they are here, with Mexico being a service-centric culture, it's a much easier skill transition from what they knew to living here... so they can and are willing to do things legally, just need the resources to do so... unfortunately, that's only once they're here. The same is true is for South America and with the shared language and common support, easier to integrate them also once they are here...
So there's that. They see the US as a better version of Mexico, for sure, it is Mexico where their passion for their heritage (Hint to Democrats, shared heritage is NOT identity.. that's dismissive)... but the actual country itself hadn't shown to some they believed in its citizens enough to offer the space for things to work or to fix its own issues, so they still come here... You don't see Canadians flooding the US border, even though it's ass cold up there... :laugh:
So it's like the cultural part of Mexico is acceptable, but the institutional parts of all kinds of broken and corrupt. So the perception is strong among that community that all politicians just lie to get rich... they're basically magical wordsmiths, almost in a mystical sense even, they are just there to deceive people and pull them into schemes.. so they weren't raised in a context that allows them to see politics the same way we do, where it's actually a way to move a country forward... so actually, they're skeptical of politics from the get go and I think that keeps them from being indoctrinated into partisan mudslinging... so those votes to shifts to Republican are certainly not stable unless they are earned, imo. That's from the immigrant portion... the 2nd/3rd generations are more like the young/newer gens here, but still keep and hold onto the common sense of their roots... so it varies.
So I think the Democrats shoot themselves in the foot with their anti-Patriotic talk as well, with the burning of flags and national dissent.. because, yes America has issues, but it's workable and fixable compared to where they came from. Hispanics, especially Mexicans, their relationship to the national flag and nationalism is very complex... and when they see this depressive language around the nation they currently reside in and back, and the way its being crafted to manipulate and pander to their vote, they see it closer to the disillusionment they were trying to get away from... and they don't want that.
It's also still possible to be proud of "your" country despite the fact it has massive flaws. I have a neighbor who has a motorcycle he rides around on that has both the American and Mexican flag inthe back. Very much not offensive and he blasts Tejano and Michael Jackson from his loudspeaker to give you an idea of his musical diversity :laugh:.. obviously he doesn't want to go back to Mexico, is very proud of the country he came from, but he still holds great pride in his roots there and regularly returns for visits. It's just he has migrated here but obviously still culturally is Mexican.. so I think the Hispanic relationship to nationality is far more complicated than partisan politics allows for, or even identity. The Democrats clearly don't understand that because they see everything through purely a skin color lens, almost like a colorimeter...... rather than understanding the delicate sociopolitical makeup of their voting base, which isn't left or right... and they more they try to milk those votes, the simpler their definitions get of the people underneath them become...
Kamala was the simplest and most watered down version of pandering to the Democrat vote I'd ever seen.. and believe it or not, that's not very American for many and doesn't allow people enough room to breath and be different, ie individuals. Most Americans, I don't care the demographic, just see themselves as individuals... the lumping to the degree that it's been done of late is one of the latest events, but it's not permanent. I think that that only works temporarily.. people are going back to their individual minds eventually and will find something else to get interested in. They're not apt to stay absorbed in the tribalism because while at heart Americans love being competitive, which is a reason to group up, by nature we eschew tribalism deep down. I've explained before, we're viciously individualistic, but in a hivemind kind of way at times. :laugh: Not easy to understand... we're an organized bee hive when upset, sure, but it's very temporary, and then we go back to the forest to find new **** to piss off (the American way...)...
...and so Trump should also take note not to take that for granted and work very hard to make his decisions and positions clear as possible and to be fair to the population with every possibility... I think it's an easier thing to do than not, there just has to be a willingness, but we'll see...
