I just found out the right word.. its not homophoccia.. its homophobia.. Oh snap im too dumb for serious debates..



:thumbs:conzors:thumbs:

lol bless ya.:colour:

and a child that was left behind and not apopted wouldnt be?

I Didnt Sneeze:conf2::conf2:



:thumbs:conzors:thumbs:

Of course it should be okay for a Gay person or persons to adopt a child. How else would they be able to have children? This is something which is in itself - quite homophobic. Targeting a massive percentage of the worlds population who are gay and do wish to have children. The rights are there and people should be treated equally, whether gay or straight.

Two men can just as easily bring up a child as a straight couple. It also doesn't mean that the child that you do bring up will turn gay as a result of his or her parents being gay - that opinion is a stupid one. Every child goes to School and they shall mingle with other children and meet girls and from that - a straight relationship can easily happen for that child in time to come

Provided they fit the criteria set by adoption agencies, and it is applied equally across all applicants there should be no problem.


But to use the question "How else would they be able to have a child ?", as a reason that gays should be able to adopt is disingenuous, and to refuse them the right to adopt on those grounds is homophobic ? ...well on those points I would have to disagree with you, the latter point especially is just reactionary.

A gay couple cannot have children "naturally", and the argument against that some people have that says a gay couple are not "normal" can be seen to stem from this - though I'll ignore the Christian fundamentalists who dwell too much on Leviticus and praying for rapture, as they are quite mad.


Whilst I strongly disagree with those who would deny them the right to adopt, I can accept, and even understand the rationale some people have that says that a gay couple are not a "normal" couple, in a pure biological definition a "normal" couple can produce offspring. Even if medical assistance is required, it takes a male and a female to produce a child, a gay couple by its very nature are unable to do this.

The argument that IVF can solve this does not take away the fundamental truth that to propogate offspring you need both male and female.


Like immigration, this issue is smothered in political correctness, if you disagree you are "homophobic" - regardless of your reasons for disagreement, just like if you disagree with unfettered immigration you are labelled "racist" - that is the debate tool of the jackboot.

This thread is probably going nowhere fast - sadly the subject generally has been too polarised by the right wing chapter of the PC brigade - just like immigration debate has been smothered by the left wing chapter - no real debate, just entrenched positions and labelling. and all the while kids miss out on a caring, stable upbringing.

Sad but true

I do understand that every case will be looked into differently. When it comes to children, they need to use - kid gloves and look into the backgrounds of the gay parents and the surroundings in which the child will be placed, no risks taken!

When I said - "How else would they be able to have a child ?", I was refering to the fact that it needs a man and a woman together to make a child, that is [pretty obvious] really - but I still mentioned it within my post. If you read it differently, then I guess you [could be] excused? nothing disingenuous - I assure you. This whole debate has a rather homophobic feel IMO - it actually shouldn't be questioned whether gay or straight? - legally it is allowed and questioning it is allowed but not so reactionary on my part, but others perhaps?

Gay people are different than straight people because they prefer to be with their own sex. That is the only different part and many find that quite repulsive. Just like those who have problems over race. It is a fact, however - not deemed acceptable in society. Your problems with Christian fundamentalists who dwell on Leviticus will be quite small. Most reading that example won't understand??? Perhaps an [easier to understand descriptive] would be more appropriate? There's a lesson

Many are politically correct on forums and I would agree with that, as being the opposite can make you unpopular or labelled. If opinions within a gay debate - enter the world of homophobia, then pointing it out can be easy, but not always effective. Stepping into 'homophobia' accidently in font is easy for some to do. I also realise that immigration is a subject for debate, but 'racism' and 'immigration' is quite different. I think the Government can tackle 'immigration' and not be accused of being 'racist' - the debate tool can on occasion be questionable

The thread has miles and miles to go, as it is acceptable for other forum members to participate as and when. But that can be - of course questioned? it depends on the poster...ie - 'critic' - I would give it a few more rounds before getting too sure of oneself:pat:

I don't think gay couples should be able to adopt whether it be 2 men or 2 women. I just don't think it's fair on the child, I know people will say ''what is normal?'' but having 2 men or 2 women as parents is not a ''normal'' upbringing. Fair enough there are a lot of single parents so a lot of kids don't have that ''normal'' upbringing anyway but giving a child 2 mums or 2 dads IMO is just not a normal upbringing for a child, whatever age they are.

Also, the child will most probably be bullied in school, out of school and most probably everywhere he/she goes. No, it's not right and they shouldn't be but the world isn't a nice place and I don't think a kid should have to go through that when there are plenty of straight couples who want to adopt, yeah it may take longer but is that not better than being put with 2 gay parents, not having a ''normal'' childhood and possibly have a miserable childhood as they will be targetted for their gay parents?

For those 2 reasons; it is not a ''normal'' upbringing, it really isn't and that isn't a hompohobic comment, but having 2 mums or 2 dads just isn't normal hence why it takes a man and a woman to create a child - not 2 of one, and the bullying issue, it is almost gaurenteed that the child will be bullied because there are narrowminded, nasty people who wouldn't think twice of putting the child through years of hell at school and outside school just because of their parents and for those 2 reasons soley, I don't think gay couples should be allowed to adopt.

This is not a narrowminded opinion or a homophobic opinion in the slightest, more of a realistic one.

Ultimately, it's not about the parents, people think that ''oh it's not fair on gay people who can't have children'' but ultimately it is about the child, they should be the main priority and their happiness should come before the happiness of the gay couples.

totally agree with you legend .:thumbs:

LOL,This thread makes me laugh.


Guess whos gonna be a daddy next year

;)

YOU ??

Yep

:)

I dont wanna say anything too much,but im excited.

Its not the gay thing thats freaking people tho,its my age (my partners alot older than me)

Of course not, I studied that in Politic and Health, they must not adopt a child. This one will have troubles in his/her life in the future, I'm not homophobic it's just I prefer to think about the children than the parents, it's the most important thing.
They will lask "but where is my mum/my dad ?" etc.... The child will have serious troubles and will need a big psychological help.

We have to think about the children, it's selfish but it's like that.

I am sorry Sunshine, but I have to disagree. I understand that children can be picked on at School/College/Work or anywhere basically? But people have got to accept that gay men and women have the right to adopt. It doesn't matter about - [what if's?] - things are changing and people have to accept change. Bullies at School need to be dealt with also. If you get bullied at School for whatever reason, then the Teachers should be made to make it go away. 'Control' is everything.

Psychological help is always available. But it won't always be required - in fact it would be a very small percentage indeed. It is a case of adapting and if a black child receives racial abuse at School, the bully carrying out the abuse can be dealt with. The same should apply to children who have gay parents. The only attacks they will receive will be homophobic ones. Place 'homophobia' below 'racism' and what do you get?

Complaints

I don't necessary talk about bullies at school, I mean even for the children. We are made in order to have one mother and one father, it's like the world works. But I won't say that for gay people, the nature is what it is, people can do what they want together but not when it involves the mental health of a young child. Who will be the mother or the father ? The roles are confused and a child can't find some foundations in his/her life by starting like that.
There is nothing to do with a black child because this one has a mother and a father at the beginning, and being black is not as dangerous for your mental health than to have gay parents.

Our societies aren't ready to accept that, in Britain you voted the gay marriage but not the gay adoption and it won't happen until 10 years and it's normal.

What about the thousands of children who are born into single parent families? If the child has a healthy and balanced life then there needn't be a regimented father/mother influence.

You can't comparse it to that, there is nothing to do with.
Having one parent is a different question, they have one exemple only one and they can refer to it but having 2, the same sex, is too much trouble for the child. The psychologists and the scientists clearly stated that having 2 parents of the same sex will cause some damage to the child. The nature is like that, it works for the gay couple but not for the gay parents, it's the only thing that gay people can't have, they only think about themselves and not about the child, they just want a child in order to say "haha we can have one" but finally the child is really unhappy.

I'm just saying what I did study and what the psychologists and the scientists have clearly stated.

I'm only expressing my opinion.

I know and I respect it a lot don't worry ! :wink:

tbh - i think any 2 people on earth who cannot have children, and would love a child and has a very strong relationship should have a child, whether your gay, bisexual, Straight, asian, black, etc.

To all the people claiming that the child wouldn't be brought up under normal circumstances - firstly, the term "normal" is only when we compare to the typical nuclear family, something which gay adoptive parents is very dissimilar to. Secondly, we should be striving to try and change the "norm" if we're to try and encourage and welcome other sexualities (or races, classes, etc.) and make society more accepting.

However, it's a difficult issue, as childhood bullies are (probably unintentionally) incredibly judgmental and sometimes single out the different kids. So I'm sitting on the fence on this debate :tongue:

I cant believe some of the things I have read in this thread "not normal" what is that all about, what is normal these days.

The key for me is that any child is loved and nurtured, that is what should be thought of as normal. Any couple that is prepared to offer a loving, nurturing home to a child should be welcomed with open arms. One problem I see is people's attitudes, this world still suggests that people are not normal because of their sexuality!

The other thing is what about those that have their own biological child with a sperm donor is that also wrong?

We live in a small minded world that never ceases to make me hang my head in shame

The sexuality of the parents should not be an issue in adoption at all. All that matters is that the parent(s) are loving and able to provide a safe and happy atmosphere for the children. I am amazed that some people think that someone should not be able to adopt because they are gay - and the argument that a child might be more likely to grow up gay if they are raised by gay parents, is frankly ridiculous. How on earth do you account for gay people whose parents are not gay?

I am sad to say that I am disgusted at the narrow-minded attitude of some people towards this matter.

I'd like to know who on earth your teacher for Politocs and Health was! Can I ask how exactly you KNOW that a child will want to know where their mother or father is? Can I ask how many children who have been raised by gay parents you actually spoke to? Because it seems to me that no matter what you say, you are making a heck of a lot of assumptions about what a child will go through in their life.

Also, where did you buy your crystal ball? I'd love to get one of those.

Hey don't be so rude Ruth, you are quite disapointing really.
My Politic and Health Teacher hasn't done anything wrong, we just read what scientists and psychologists have said. A child can be loved strongly by their parents and I didn't say it was "normal" or not, the term of "normal" does depend and doesn't exist at all, that's what you learn in Politic.
I read some child's speechs, and they aren't very well in their life, they miss something and the role of the mother is the most important one in a life (like the father's one), if you don't have it you miss something.

Don't think I say that for nothing, I'm not used to say things without sources, I'm quite disapointed you can think that of me. I talk only when I'm sure of what I'm saying.

And I can't see the point of a crystal ball, the psychologists made loads of experiments and they did conclude that having gay parents influence the child's life,not his/her sexuality but the life education and in the future, do not transfer the values to their children.

I'm so disapointed because people say "members don't respect out opinions" but when I see how people react to a someone's opinion, it makes me quite sick.