I know some of the religious aspects but I don't celebrate those really. I'd have a Christmas tree and buy presents for friends/ family, that's it. I wouldn't mind if a none Jewish person wanted to celebrate Hannukah.

You're suggesting changing something people have done for literally hundreds of years? Never going to happen.

It is how it is, and it's never going to change. There's hardly any problem other than a slight moral one, and even then it's in the eye of the religion.

But why celebrating it if you don't even understand what is it or what does it mean ? Just for a turkey, presents and Santa Claus ?

yeah, cos we;re gunna go out and create a totally new day. You know its not up to us to just invent holidays you know

One hundred years ago, people did celebrate Christmas for its religion values and not for presents and Santa Claus (who didn't exist at all).

Of course it's not going to change because people don't know what they celebrate, they just do it because it has became fashionable to get presents. I'm sure some don't even know it's a religious day for Christians, it's not right and people don't respect that.

So you take the first day you found on a calender ?
I will never underqtand why atheists decided to invade a day who doesn't mean anything to them.

But if it was religious only, why christmas trees? santa claus? mistletoe?! Christmas as you know it is most heavily influenced by roman and pagan festivals that occured even before Christmas was celebrated.

Of course I understand what it means, I'm not stupid. I just don't necessarily believe in it.

Pre-Christian origins:

"A winter festival was traditionally the most popular festival of the year in many cultures. Reasons included less agricultural work needing to be done during the winter, as well as people expecting longer days and shorter nights after the winter solstice in the Northern Hemisphere. In part, the Christmas celebration was created by the early Church in order to entice pagan Romans to convert to Christianity without losing their own winter celebrations. Certain prominent gods and goddesses of other religions in the region had their birthdays celebrated on December 25, including Ishtar, Sol Invictus and Mithras. Various traditions are considered to have been syncretised from winter festivals"

“It is unknown exactly when or why December 25 became associated with Christ's birth. The New Testament does not give a specific date”

The christmas trees and etc were created after and broke the religion's values. Nobody in the christian religion said "You will have to put a tree in your house"

"The Christmas tree is often explained as a Christianization of pagan tradition and ritual surrounding the Winter Solstice, which included the use of evergreen boughs, and an adaptation of pagan tree worship"

I never said you were stupid. I just can't see the point of celebrating it knowing that you don't believe in a religion and as you said, knowing what does this day represent.

Remy- do you have a christmas tree at christmas? Were you told/ will you tell your children of santa?

…Because most of the Christians I know DO have Christmas trees! This was a Christianization of a “pagan” tradition based around the winter solstice and tree worship! They aren’t pagan so should they have the right to have Christmas trees?

Yes I do but my parents always made the difference. And we keep the tree only 10 days and we know what we celebrate, we follow the traditions and go to the church the day before or at midnight.

And because I'm a christian I'm not going to celebrate Hannukah because I respect Jewish people and their traditions.

My girlfriend is muslim and she doesn't celebrate Christmas and it drives her mad when she sees muslim people doing it.

Whay you are saying about the tree is true but it doesn't have the same meaning at all. Atheists mostly do it because it's fashionable .

So doesn't that make you a bit of a hypocrite? You can celebrate a pagan celebration (or pagan elements) by having a tree but we can't celebrate a christian celebration (or christian elements) by celebrating the 25th... A date which I already told you was celebrated BEFORE christians decided that was the birth date of christ?!

Because you celebrate (and all the atheists by the way) it for the winter soltice ? Come on 2 minutes before searching on Internet what does Christmas mean you didn't know it. (And most of the atheists by the way who don't celebrate anything)

We are celebrating the Christian elements despite not being Christians just as you are celebrating the Pagan elements despite not being Pagan.

And I don't happen to think it is ridiculous. I don't call you celebrating it for your reasons ridiculous and the fact you have a tree even though this hasn't got the slightest thing to do with Christianity.

It's tradition- things we've picked up from different cultures over thousands of years. Live and let live...

Ok, to the poster who said they did not believe there were true atheists. So you don't believe? Bit of an atheist trait that. Well I am one. I do not believe in God, Buddha, Allah, Ra, Zeus, Mercury, Shiva, Pan, or Xenu. Any higher power for that mater. That is my belief. For you to say that as I know the origins of Christianity I can not be an atheist is daft. I know the origin of the car. It makes me a mechanic? If you know of the Loch Ness monster, Bigfoot, the Roswell Alien, does that mean you have to believe in it?

You know, I always thought that Christianity was meant to be an all loving, welcoming religion. I was wrong. It is obviously an insular and closed club. My bad.

My sister is a Muslim. She gives Christmas gifts. I an Atheist give her, a Muslim Christmas gifts. If I am round a Muslim friends house at the time of Eid I will be invited to ( I was going to say pig out) join in the feast. The same with Hindu's and Dwali. You will be invited to join in. I would much rather live in a world where everyone is invited to join in everyone's fun.

Was It Remy that said we should start our own day out. Well I suggest you get your own house in order be for you tell me what to do. Christmas is when it is due to Pegan festivals. It was easier to get Pegans to convent if it was to something the recognised. So it was at the same time and you did the same sort of things, like giving gifts.

While we are at it, can you Christians please come up with your own names for the days of the week. They are based on a religion you don't follow. So play the game.

I knew what Xmas meant before looking on the internet :S It's a bit obvious

Remy, don't know if the "Come on 2 minutes before searching on Internet what does Christmas mean you didn't know it." was aimed at just Matt or everyone. If it was aimed at everyone then you are incorrect if you apply that statement to me.

To Matt indeed.
I know some people did know it, I just said that you ask someone in the street and ask what does Christmas mean, the person will say "Ermm we just offer presents because it's like this". Don't deny it, it's terribly obvious because all the values are going.

But I bet you didn't know it either. I bet you couldn't explain why you had a tree. You are taking a Pagan tradition. Why? You see we pick up things from various cultures throughout history. It's not wrong, it's traditional. Christmas, whether you like to admit it or not, derived from the winter solstice and not Christianity. Now the name ‘Christmas’ is the traditional word in English because the Christian church was very powerful for a long period of time throughout history so this name has become the traditional name for the celebration- one that none Christians had celebrated even before Christians did- so atheists have just as much right to celebrate what they want, when they want, than you have.

What is the French name? “Noël” which is thought to derive from the Gaulish words “neu” meaning new and "helle" meaning light referring to the winter solstice when sunlight begins overtaking darkness so really, if I was French I could say I celebrated Noel and this would have no religious aspects whatsoever because the only thing for me that ties Christams to a religious celebration is the name. And of course I knew that Christians celebrate christmas as the birth date of christ, it was just some other details I looked up.

I was debating about the "religious" aspect as the first post said, that's why I said the tree has no link with the Christian religion. Sorry if we did have a misunderstood, I was talking in terms of religion, not the winter solistice.
I'm not saying atheists must not celebrate it but as the debate was about the religion, in that point, they should not. But if they got their traditions then good for them.

You're right about the french name but that doesn't mean all french people celebrate christmas only for the winter soltice or for being catholic. They are 2 different aspects.

So I think we were debating but in 2 different ways lol If we talk about the religion side, atheists should not (for me indeed).