ThisisBigBrother.com - UK TV Forums - Are you in favour of animal cruelty?

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I clicked fox hunting, but having just googled vivisection thats horrible! are the animals alive? How can it be legal!?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 4194068)

Not just rabbits though, they pose a big threat to farmers livstock; chickens, lambs etc. and therefore their income. Foxes dont always have a reason either, a lot of the time they'll kill say 5 chickens and eat only 1 of them. I'm not avidly in support of fox hunting but I do think it can do more good than it is given credit for. Obviously it's a contentious issue, both sides have valid points, I'm pretty indifferent on the whole; I wouldnt hunt myself but I dont believe in criminalising it

I agree with most of your post MTVN, I watched a programme on this a few years ago, in it they were analysing why the fox was a messy killer in that it killed so many Chickens for example.

It's conclusion was firstly the noise of all the birds panicked the fox so it killed as many as it could, Also though the aim is of the fox is to get food and then also build up and store food,Foxes had been seen killing chickens and eating one then the others it killed, one by one carrying them in its mouth nearer its den and burying them to eat later.

However, foxes find their efforts and the noises of the chickens alert the danger so get interrupted in that carrying off and burying activity,hence why so many bodies are left seemingly killed for no reason.

Even so, it is nature,so I don;t see the need for the inhumane act of loads of well fed men and women, riding around on horseback with loads of hounds chasing one fox to enjoy seeing torn to pieces.
Someone said, fox hunting was 'the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable'.I forget who.

I just don't like fox hunting at all, as I said I saw a as a child a fox caught by the hounds and ripped apart alive.I have that picture in my mind and it was horrific and to see grown ups laughing and enjoying it made me feel really sick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 4194068)

Then go about controlling the Vulpine population the correct way. It's the theatric treatment of it as a hobbyhorse that I can't stand. It's very much pleasure for these bored, wayward toffs, not business.

I don't understand what vivisection means here. Someone shed some light?

Quote:

Originally Posted by arista (Post 4193868)

None
its the British way of Life.

Mmmm. Me thinks perhaps that's more the Tory way of life.... Your viewpoint makes it perfectly understandable as to the reason for your political perspectives

I nearly vomited when I saw how Foie Gras is made!

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 4194087)

Indeed a very fair and balanced perspective.

Some animals at some times may need to be controlled in the interests of mans own survival in the natural food chain of this hell scenario dog eat dog world we are in.

Killing for food or killing to save futur food is one thing but killing for pure sadistic entertainment is something all together different as I know you are aware of from the points you raise......

If animals do need to be culled it should be done in a humane way as possible. Not some dick head of a sadistic fox hunter or some amateur shooter of farmer charging about with a gun.

All of the items listed in the poll can be concluded to be a form of cruelty simply because man is interfering with nature purly for entertainment.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suze (Post 4194069)

Sorry Vicky :( It's just as this is under serious debate, it might be worth knowing more about what we are debating I suppose. Below is the second news article, this time on the origin of Fox Hunting and the treayment of the animals raised for Veal.

It would be if your information was correct, Veal ctaes are illegal in the UK and have been for over 20 years(1990). As is the import of veal produced overseas using crates.

That article was wrote for the Animal Welfare argument in the states, where some states still allow the use of crates. There is a little clue in the last paragraph - "Ask your state legislators to sponsor..."

Heres a more up to date article on Veal.

Quote:

All the issues that surround veal seem to be terribly controversial. Whether it’s veal production, veal eating or the treatment of the calves, talking about veal is guaranteed to get people hot under the collar. Perhaps it is a subject to be avoided over the dinner party table – or one to choose if you want a heated debate!

What Is Veal?
So, what is veal and why do so many people disapprove of it? Veal is the meat from young male calves, generally around six months old. The males are taken from their mothers while they are still feeding as the males are not useful to a dairy farmer.

When the calves are born, the females are kept for their future duties as milk producers. As the males cannot offer this function, they are not kept by the farmers.

What happens next is essentially what the fuss is about. It is hard not to have sympathy with the male calves and, in turn, the majority of people, especially in the UK, that disapprove of ‘traditional’ veal production.

Where Does Veal Come From?
As there is no ‘purpose’ for the male calves, they are usually slaughtered. In the UK, strict slaughter laws have been in place for some time, with the use of crates outlawed since 2000 and thoroughly out of fashion since 1990.

Crates are the transportation method for live animals. They allow only a small amount of space per animal (which, while it has recently been increased, is still a relatively small space, especially taking into consideration the long journey times, emotion and lack of water on such journeys). There are slatted floors which can be very damaging to the hooves and legs of the animals.

However, many of the unwanted male calves are transported for slaughter outside of the UK, where the strict slaughter rules are not in place.

Who Eats Veal?
Veal is not a popular meat in the UK, with less than one in one hundred households buying even once a year. It is terribly out of fashion due to the horrific animal welfare issues that surround it. It would be considered highly inappropriate and perhaps even offensive to serve veal at a dinner party – eating veal is a controversial choice, so cooking it for guests would be unfair.

Veal is more popular across continental Europe, with France and Holland being the main consumers. In even the smallest French supermarket veal is available, with many butchers specialising in veal.

The Good Veal Campaign

Recent developments in the UK have seen the introduction of the ‘Good Veal Campaign’, launched in 2006 by celebrity chefs known for their strict stance on animal welfare, such as Hugh Fernley Whittingstall and Sophie Grigson.

The key differentiation is the development of ‘rose veal’. Traditional, controversial veal is called ‘white veal’ as the meat is very pale. This paleness is the result of the atrocious conditions the animals are kept in, with minimal iron, roughage and movement.

Rose veal does not allow any of these conditions, so the meat is a pale pink. As of January 2008, Marks and Spencer’s have only sold rose veal, with Waitrose and other high end food retailers keen to follow suit.
http://www.meateat.co.uk/about-veal.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun (Post 4194137)

I don't understand what vivisection means here. Someone shed some light?

Vivisection (from Latin vivus "alive" + sectio "cutting") is defined as surgery conducted for experimental purposes on a living organism, typically animals with a central nervous system, to view living internal structure. The term is sometimes more broadly defined as any experimentation on live animals; see animal testing.[1][2][3] The term is often used by organizations opposed to animal experimentation[4] but is rarely used by practicing scientists.[2][5] Human vivisection has been perpetrated as a form of torture.

From Wikipedia

Difficult choice only one in the poll....

Top of the list for turning my stomach and enraging me are:

Vivisection
Foie Gras
Veal Meat
Fox Hunting

Long torture that truly is unecessary and sickening.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 4194087)

Someone said, fox hunting was 'the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable'.I forget who.

it was Patrick

anyways...

I don't even care what excuses foxes have for killing other animals. I'd just prefer my area to be rid of foxes rather than have them kill all the other animals. Children used to love watching all the rabbits and squirrels everywhere. Now there's hardly any and we have urban foxes sneaking around at night. Frankly, theyre a menace.

One fox can kill dozens of other animals so one fox dead saves numerous other animals. Now to me thats logic.

*Feels like a Dick head for picking Horse Racing over Foie Gras now*

Just researched what vivisection is.

Spoiler:

:eek:

*Feels like a Dick head again for saying Foie Grass is worse*

Quote:

Originally Posted by bananarama (Post 4194178)

Thank you banarama, I abhore fox hunting,also however I have to say while I think most or even all the options are greatly undesirable anyway as to the options listed,the foie gras one has me feeling really sick.awful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smithy (Post 4193931)

o_o

Cheery thread as ever Kazanne

Karezza*

So this thread is asking, which degree of cruelty is least acceptable to you? All cruelty is deplorable. Gandhi said "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated". Ain't it the truth...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 4195164)

Not really, that's pretty poor logic to say the least

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 4195172)

Not really, that's pretty poor logic to say the least

What's pretty poor logic? That I find all cruelty hard to accept? Or was it Gandhi's logic you were questioning?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livia (Post 4195694)

What's pretty poor logic? That I find all cruelty hard to accept? Or was it Gandhi's logic you were questioning?

Ghandi saying that a nations "greatness" and "moral progress" is defined by how they treat their animals, I dont agree with that at all

Quote:

Originally Posted by ButterflyGirl (Post 4193873)

Some cows are just kept pregnant all the time so they can give milk constantly ,that is just unimaginable. :(

Can you imagine the stress they must feel? This must affect the milk that humans drink.

:sad:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boothy (Post 4194361)

Just researched what vivisection is.

Spoiler:

Scientists do this do countless millions of rats, mice, cats, dogs, monkeys & other animals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 4195953)

Ghandi saying that a nations "greatness" and "moral progress" is defined by how they treat their animals, I dont agree with that at all

Thanks you for letting me know. I bet Gandhi is proper gutted.