Well said. The day that religion is ousted from our schools and politics then people may have a little more "respect" for it.

But who can respect adults saying they believe in what the bible says? - i mean come on..:conf:

I never said all religious people did. But at least when Atheists do do it, they do it in an intelligent manner and not rant and rave in the street like some loon. And nobody really berates the people themselves, they simply point out the flaws and contradictions in the Religion they follow. It's up to them if they listen or not. This "agressive atheism" movement is vastly exaggerated. The only place you mostly find it is on the net.

I do agree with that, you only have to look at America to figure out why religeon shouldn't be a factor in politics, any old guy can get into a position of power by wittering on about god in the deep South.

Seems like awhile since we've had one of these threads. I'm here, Joe's here and LT's here. Let's get a fire going until Sticks arrives.

I don't really have a problem with Dawkins, Hitchens and that lot, and I find it a bit stupid when people use the term "fundamentalist Atheism" and make out it's just the same as Religious fundamentalism. The worst the militant Atheists do is challenge religious beliefs, albeit quite aggressively, but at least they don't wish to see you suffering in eternal hell just because you didn't live your life as their God supposedly dictates

God, Sticks with his mini novel post with lots of links and a cheeky reminder he moderates a Science forum or whatever it is :joker:

Only thing about them is they seem to debate and meet with complete twonks. Some Christians can put their views across really well without coming across as a raving fundie. They may've come across some of them people and I have not seen it, but from what I've seen, they meet complete idiots.

Even on DS there are about 5 believers and all are fairly hopeless.

But its not the people, its the baseless stance that religion gives them.

I don't believe in hell, in a way I don't believe in any of it (if anyone was outside barrots in Henry Street at around 4 you would have seen me tell some american preacher to **** off. Its just comforting to think that when we die that its not the end.

Yeah that's probably right, I did actually read recently how Dawkins declined to attend a debate with some top Christian theologist or something, might have had a reasonable explanation but the article I was reading was pretty much implying he was a bit of a cop out

Oh my. I never knew that there was a problem with believing in heaven and god and all that. Im a catholic (not a full-on one) and I believe in both (the belief of heaven and the theroy of science) . But I am able to accept different views, because any could be true. Whether there is or not doesn't matter, sometimes believing in these sorts of things gives people comfort. It doesn't make it wrong or claptrap. I would rather live my life believing some day, I shall meet with my members of family who are deceased, rather than live thinking that when I die, I die, and that is it. Bashing people who believe in things such as heaven and the bible does not make your point any more valid. Rant over.

Whether or not there's an afterlife, I think it's annoying when people try to force their views on you. So whether that's a religious person trying to convert you or a non-religious person trying to convince you that there's no God, it's annoying either way. Let everyone be, isn't that what we're meant to be aiming for - some kind of universal tolerance of each other?

What about hell? Do you believe in that? Because both exist and are very real places according to The Bible. Or are you one of those people who conveniently believes in only the good stuff or chalks hell up to a state of mind or something like that?

And there is no need for debate on if The Bible is wrong or claptrap. It is. Whatever about spirituality as a whole but The Bible is hillariously fallible, contradictory and historically unaccurate. With most of the best stuff toward the end being hijacked from other older traditions.

But I assume your well versed in it. Being a Catholic you've surely read it cover to cover by now?

It seems to me that you either believe or you don't. The boy in the video clearly believes, others in this thread clearly don't :shrug:

...yeah? :tongue:

And even that simplification isin't accurate. What about fence sitters and people who have not made up their minds yet?

Agnostics, yo. Word.

I'd say they are non believers

Are You On Weed or Something


As that will Never Happen on this Planet of No God

The Bible is a book of morals, not real stories, Iv'e always known that. Being a Catholic doesnt mean I go to church or read both, because I do neither. And honestly, I believe that there is a place such as hell where those who derserve to be there are there. Being a Catholic doesn't mean I force my views on other people, and as stated before I'm not a hugely religious one, I have my own beliefs just like everyone else in the world.

So you consider yourself a Christian but do not participate in the two most important aspects of your faith : Sacrifice and Scripture?

That's an odd one. And yes there is plenty of stories in The Bible. And I'm not just talking about the parables. Any sort of Christian worth his or her salt is quite clearly meant to believe it is also a rough historic document.

You appear to have concocted your own religion though. So which bits are stories not made to be taken seriously? Was that whole Jesus bit a story?

I'm sorry if I appear like I'm coming down hard but this stuff just baffles me.

i'd feel sad for him if he hadn't used that music in the video. It's like Michael Bay teamed up with Magnetic Man.

Yes you can

Arista hasn't turned up with an image of a Richard Dawkins book yet though

How?

Offer alternate explanations or criticise the things in favour of its existence? You can prove that your kids imaginary friend doesn't exist, so I'm sure you can do the same for religion. Its the same thing after all but imaginary friend on a mass scale

Just found this on Google also

So God can't exist. And if he does its not in the form he's expected and so you begin to chip away at this so called God.

Seems pretty logical and straight forward enough to me?

/a level religion

Offering an alternative explanation isn't proof though and no one can prove that a childs imaginary friend doesn't actually exist either

In the case of a childs imaginary friend you have the foreknowledge that it's made up though. Well ... much easier foreknowledge.

A better example would be my old favourite : The Space Wolves.

Prove Space Wolves don't exist i.e. destroy my dreams.

I don't see why the bible is really relevant?? it seems to me that either you believe that something is in control of the universe and our destiny or fate (God) or that it's all random and pointless (evolution) :shrug:

Unfortunately, I lean more towards random and pointless. I mean, if something is in control of our destiny and fate, why do bad things happen to good people? Why are innocent children killed in accidents or get life threatening diseases? Answer: Because it's all random and pointless

You are simplifying it way, way too much. What about Deism? Whereby a godhead figure kickstarted the universe but has no involvement with it? What about a belief system where someone believes in Evolution but doesn't believe it's all random? What about the multitude of spiritual belief systems one can conjure up without the need for a godhead?

And The Bible is one of the biggest 'spiritual' tracts in the world hence why people are mentioning it. It's relevant because people believe it to an extent and others are interested in knowing why or how. It's not that hard to figure out, is it? People like debating things out. There's no harm in that. Obviously you can throw stock statements like "Some people believe, and some people don't" out until the cows come home but all they are are null platitudes that don't really add anything to the discussion.

I saw a space wolf once :idc:

It seems to me that we all have a set of morals inbuilt in our heads, some of us ignore them others don't though. Why would we have that? we all know whats right and wrong. Bad things happen according to the bible because the devil is in control of the world and weak people are seduced by him :shrug:

maybe you're complicating it too much I don't know I don't think religion is a complicated thing really, not that I know that much about it or anything

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...-S6cmEiwO2YpBS

But what is morally acceptable has varied so much throughout history and it still does across the world today, morality is all relative

If you honestly think that EVERY catholic believes in the bible, then your deluded. Of course I think Jesus was real. That doesnt mean that I have to believe that a 700 year old man enjoyed a boatride with ***** loads of animals. Oh, and you don' t need to come down hard on me, because you do not know me and you have no say in what I believe in.

A Catholic believes The Bible as the word of God. If you don't you're not a Catholic in the churchs eyes. You're a mickey mouse Catholic. Something else entirely. That is a fact. It's like me deciding to refer to myself as an African American sailor. I'm not black and I don't own a boat.

Jesus was a Jew. He studied and believed in the Torah. Why would you not believe what your own living God and personal saviour believes in?

You don't find that a bit quaint? I suppose Jesus, much like you, decided the bits he didn't fancy were "just stories" as well?

Seriously? The whole basis of the Catholic Religion is believing in the Bible. If you don't then you're not really a Catholic.

'morality is relative', is the sort of phrase that would come straight out of the mouth of the devil himself!!!

:joker:

The Devil > :hmph:

Oh dear, Im not a Catholic in the eyes of the corrupt church? I suppose quite a few Catholic priests are not true Catholics then, because the last time I knew the Bible doesn't preach shagging the choir boy. I cannot make my views any more clear... I believe in Jesus and God and heaven and that whole shabang, and I believe that many of the Bibles stories are morals to help guide are lives. Okay?