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-   -   if you are gay, will you use the surrogacy/donor option?? (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212738)

lostalex 21-09-2012 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 5499322)
There are some very bad parents out there definitely but there are also some amazing parents. I don't think punishing every parent or potential parent is the answer though and is very unfair. It would be like putting everyone in prison to prevent crime.
i'm not proposing punishing anyone. Requiring parents to prove thjey are good parents and capable parents BEFORE they are allowed to care for children, how is that "punishing" anyone?

lostalex 21-09-2012 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 5499324)
1 out of 4 is not 'in the main;, it is not a majority - it's still remains a low percentage...it means that 75% are free of such things and lead happy, fruitful, loving, caring lives and who will no doubt pass those good attributes onto their own children should they wish to have any.

That still does not mean that a surrogate parent / child, deemed to be the perfect parent as per your description - doesn't mean they will not do the same thing. Pretending that IVF/test tube babies and 'parents being chosen' will maketh the perfect human race is as crazy as anything I've ever heard. they may as well just make clones.
really? it's a low percentage???

if Airplanes had a 1 in 4 chance of crashing, would you get on a plane? how many times would you fly?

1 out of every 4 flights crash, and you'd get on a plane? i don't think so.

Pyramid* 21-09-2012 03:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 5499327)
That might be so but why do you think getting people to adopt lab made children would stop that? It's not as if people are going to write on their application form Paedophilia and rape as one of their hobbies

:joker:
Sick black humour kicked in there. Sorry.

since the idea is to 'force sperm and eggs to be taken at puberty' from these poor children....... that's a form of abuse in it's own right - and apart from which: at such an age as puberty: such deviant inclinations may not have yet presented themselves in said sperm/egg donor.

There's no way anyone can honestly take this all seriously !!!

Pyramid* 21-09-2012 03:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 5499337)
really? it's a low percentage???

if Airplanes had a 1 in 4 chance of crashing, would you get on a plane? how many times would you fly?

The chances of car crashes are higher and I drive every day....not that that has anything at all to do with what we are speaking of.

How about addressing the points that are on topic..... or are you intending to continue to avoid them?

Niamh. 21-09-2012 03:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 5499334)
i'm not proposing punishing anyone. Requiring parents to prove thjey are good parents and capable parents BEFORE they are allowed to care for children, how is that "punishing" anyone?
Taking away a persons right to have their own biological children, forcibly sterilising them and taking away the most amazing experience a woman can have by carrying her own child.

lostalex 21-09-2012 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 5499342)
The chances of car crashes are higher and I driver every day....not that that has anything at all to do with what we are speaking of.

How about addressing the points that are on topic..... or are you intending to continue to avoid them?
umm, what? no, the chances of dying in a car crash are FAR lower than 1 out of 4, what are you talking about??

lostalex 21-09-2012 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 5499343)
Taking away a persons right to have their own biological children, forcibly sterilising them and taking away the most amazing experience a woman can have by carrying her own child.
that's not punishment anymore than requiring someone to have a driver's license is punishment. having a child is much more serious than driving a car.

Pyramid* 21-09-2012 03:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 5499347)
umm, what? no, the chances of dying in a car crash are FAR lower than 1 out of 4, what are you talking about??
the thread subject....... or at least trying to but you seem to prefer not to.

lostalex 21-09-2012 03:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 5499351)
the thread subject....... or at least trying to but you seem to prefer not to.
once again you seem to have a hard time following your own conversations. I'd sue your teachers if i were you. you'd have a good case.

fruit_cake 21-09-2012 03:48 PM
I think Alex assumed the 'state' will somehow be more fair when selecting who can and can't reproduce.

The state is merely a group of people, all fallable and all just as flawed as anyone else.

Pyramid* 21-09-2012 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 5499343)
Taking away a persons right to have their own biological children, forcibly sterilising them and taking away the most amazing experience a woman can have by carrying her own child.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 5499349)
that's not punishment anymore than requiring someone to have a driver's license is punishment. having a child is much more serious than driving a car.
Where did you get the 'car' / 'driving licence' comparison bit from - Niamh's post said nothing about that. It was detailing the rights of forcibly disallowing people to have their own children, and for a woman to experience a human life growing inside her.

Pyramid* 21-09-2012 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruit_cake (Post 5499356)
I think Alex assumed the 'state' will somehow be more fair when selecting who can and can't reproduce.

The state is merely a group of people, all fallable and all just as flawed as anyone else.
Spot on.

Niamh. 21-09-2012 03:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 5499349)
that's not punishment anymore than requiring someone to have a driver's license is punishment. having a child is much more serious than driving a car.
Of course it is. Anyway, this is one of the most ridiculous arguments I've allowed myself to get in to. I'm going to leave it there.

flamingGalah! 21-09-2012 03:52 PM
Oh dear, looks like lostalex has lost his mind again :joker:

Back on topic...

Yes me & my partner have discussed this & we would prefer to have a surrogate, but it's not something we will be rushing right now, even though we have been together for 11 years...

lostalex 21-09-2012 03:53 PM
you can't even follow you're own logic, so i don't know why i was dumb enuf to expect you to follow mine lol.

I'm arguing with big brother fans. that makes ME the idiot. i apologize for being so stupid. ;)

Pyramid* 21-09-2012 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingGalah! (Post 5499368)
Oh dear, looks like lostalex has lost his mind again :joker:

Back on topic...

Yes me & my partner have discussed this & we would prefer to have a surrogate, but it's not something we will be rushing right now, even though we have been together for 11 years...
I'm not maternal but it really is heartbreaking when I know people who I know would make the most wonderful parents, who are even having difficult getting into fostering - so my heart really goes out to those who have to look to surrogacy etc and all that it entails. Life can be very unfair.

Redway 21-09-2012 03:57 PM
No.

You don't get to change the rules of nature just because you happen to fit into a particular group.

Gay people wanting to have kids naturally is completely ... well ... unnatural and just wrong. If they can't put up with adoption then it's not my problem.

Pyramid* 21-09-2012 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redway (Post 5499378)
No.

You don't get to change the rules of nature just because you happen to fit into a particular group.

Gay people wanting to have kids naturally is completely ... well ... unnatural and just wrong. If they can't put up with adoption then it's not my problem.


I'm really having a hard time believing what you've written above - it's not often I'm gobsmacked - but you've achieved that.

fruit_cake 21-09-2012 04:03 PM
it's unnatural to have central heating and hot water, are they wrong too?????

Pyramid* 21-09-2012 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruit_cake (Post 5499403)
it's unnatural to have central heating and hot water, are they wrong too?????

Not up in Scotland it's not... it's positively necessary !!

sorry...

I dont think there is anything unatural at all for a person/people to want to nurture, care, love and want to raise a human being - I'd far rather gay parents who were able to do that than some of the examples of 'hetro' parents - stories of which we are all too familiar with.

flamingGalah! 21-09-2012 04:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redway (Post 5499378)
No.

You don't get to change the rules of nature just because you happen to fit into a particular group.

Gay people wanting to have kids naturally is completely ... well ... unnatural and just wrong. If they can't put up with adoption then it's not my problem.
Please stop trying so hard to be "offensive" & having a "radical" view, it really doesn't make you look big or clever, just incredibly immature & stupid...

Redway 21-09-2012 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 5499408)
Not up in Scotland it's not... it's positively necessary !!

sorry...

I dont think there is anything unatural at all for a person/people to want to nurture, care, love and want to raise a human being - I'd far rather gay parents who were able to do that than some of the examples of 'hetro' parents - stories of which we are all too familiar with.
Don't get me wrong, gay people are more than free to adopt and I support that notion, but imo having children biologically should be between a man and a woman.

Pyramid* 21-09-2012 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redway (Post 5499420)
Don't get me wrong, gay people are more than free to adopt and I support that notion, but imo having children biologically should be between a man and a woman.

What about women (or men) in a hetro relationship, who cannot conceive naturally - are you against nature being given a helping hand? It still requires the cells from both a man and a woman........

flamingGalah! 21-09-2012 04:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redway (Post 5499420)
Don't get me wrong, gay people are more than free to adopt and I support that notion, but imo having children biologically should be between a man and a woman.
Erm the woman would still be having the baby, you do know that gay men can't have babies right?? Only difference is that 2 men would bring up the baby, rather than a man & a woman...

Shaun 21-09-2012 04:23 PM
Well there go my plans to biologically conceive a child with Pablo.

Beso 21-09-2012 09:41 PM
If it shuts them up about it then yes gays can adopt.

Hopefully the kid will leave home at 16 and see the world in it's own right.

Sam:) 21-09-2012 10:41 PM
Im a few pages behind but if some bitch tried to steralise me id cum so hard it would blast her into a wall!

SPERM POWER

Niall 21-09-2012 10:46 PM
I would do it in a heartbeat. I would love to have children of my own or my (future) partner's decent if I could. If I couldn't then I'd adopt, but I'd like to have a kid who's biologically connected with me if possible.

I read in the news a while back that they've made a breakthrough in transferring male DNA to eggs to create offspring with male/male parents - in animals that is. But I'm sure it won't be long before that can happen with people, which is pretty damn exciting. :amazed:

Doogle 21-09-2012 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingGalah! (Post 5499414)
Please stop trying so hard to be "offensive" & having a "radical" view, it really doesn't make you look big or clever, just incredibly immature & stupid...
:worship:

Pyramid* 22-09-2012 09:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niall (Post 5500810)
I would do it in a heartbeat. I would love to have children of my own or my (future) partner's decent if I could. If I couldn't then I'd adopt, but I'd like to have a kid who's biologically connected with me if possible.

I read in the news a while back that they've made a breakthrough in transferring male DNA to eggs to create offspring with male/male parents - in animals that is. But I'm sure it won't be long before that can happen with people, which is pretty damn exciting. :amazed:
That sound really interesting - I'm aware there are animals/ creatures whereby it is the male who fertilises the female eggs and carries the offspring to birth - but they still need to female to produce the eggs (seahorses as example): but what you've said sounds as though there is no female involvement at all - very interesting stuff indeed.


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