..yeah, I was just going to make a similar post in that my world was very male dominated and I was a complete tomboy/hung around with my brothers and their friends and only ever had one female friend...but I guess that if I had been gay and felt that my environment was a contributory factor, then whether it's fact or not, then that would be my belief in my head...

Lol, I try to argue with my friends that believe that but I grew up in a house full of women and I'm gay and they like to point that out. :laugh:

By the same token though, there's a guy I went to school with, he grew up with a mother and father and there was 4 children 3 boys and 1 girl, him and one of his brothers are gay and the other brother and the sister are straight. They all grew up in the same house.

Yeah, that's true, I think some gay men were raised by women and so think that's the reason but there are plenty gay men who were raised by two parents also, i think single mothered familes are just more common now which is why the percentage of gay men coming from being raised by just a mother is more common

..and maybe for some people if they have just a female influence in their lives, they may find it easier to realise their sexuality and so, that could be interpreted as an 'influence', when it isn't....

I agree with this. Why would anyone make the conscious choice to be subjected to verbal, physical and emotional abuse because of their sexuality? When people say it's a choice, I want to ask those people "so when did you choose to be straight?" - I blame religion for that attitude.

I also can see where they are coming from. People develop all sorts of fetishes from experiences they had when they were younger; I can see why people would think they "became" gay because of things that happened to them when they were younger... but ultimately I don't believe that you are nurtured to be gay. It's something you are born as. I think experiences you have when you're young could contribute to how you perceive your own homosexuality and your preferences, just as your experiences as a child can give you phobias and passions...

Racism is taught. Who is teaching homosexuality? Nobody.

I believe that there maybe a trigger too for some (maybe not all) that's to say it's latent in some and awoken by experience or event.
I think that theory is being accepted now for psychopaths, that the brain chemistry is there but it takes a trigger to 'switch on' the part of the brain responsible.
Maybe evander in BB could have been trying to explain a similar nature/nurture argument, but the way he was grilled for it... wow, It's really getting scary the way you can't even vocalise anything that doesn't conform to the 'norm' these days is frightening!

I wonder if they'll ever figure out why people are homosexual in my lifetime? I'd be interested to know the science behind it. I still think that homosexuality is one of nature's attempts to curb the human population, along with diseases, illnesses and infertility. There are too many people in the world.

We were created because women could no longer be trusted to dress themselves.

Nature.

I've always been close to both of my parents. My mother was never domineering or a smother mother and I've always been close to my Dad, we're actually very similar but I'm still really close to both of my parents so I do have to rubbish claims that parental relationships shape sexuality.

I always felt attraction to the same gender from birth, it was never a change in me or anything, I was never exposed to anything that made me feel like that, it certainly felt like a natural attraction and a natural progression of sexuality to me.

LOL :joker:

I would point out that the nature / nurture debate has nothing to do with the "choice" debate... nurture does not mean "choice", it just means that the psychology is shaped by early experiences. It's no more of a "choice" though... just as (for example, I'm not making a direct comparison!) a phobia is almost always rooted in early childhood, but is certainly not a choice... it's as ingrained as any instinct.

So anyway, away from the nature/nurture debate, whichever it is, I certainly don't believe that it's a choice. One of my best friends, who I've known for almost 15 years, is gay and quite "obviously" gay. Not an Alan Carr or a Rylan level of obvious, but at least a Graham Norton on the scale. You can tell, basically. Anyway - myself and basically all of his close friends were CERTAIN that he was gay, from when we were around 14. Like I said it was just obvious! We brought it up with him several times and he said he wasn't. I once even pushed the issue by asking if he fancied anyone in our year, and he really did try... bless him... to pretend that he did. When I asked what he liked about her, he said she's "just really nice". :joker:

He kept up this pretense for years (we didn't constantly badger him about it, just occasional comments like "yes but that's because you're obvz gay..." which he would laugh off) and didn't actually "come out" until we were 19 and at University. He did it like a big reveal at the pub, as if it would be a shock, it was brilliant.

"Guys.. I have something I need to tell you all..."
"Is it that you're gay?"
"...yes..."
"FINALLY!!!"

OK so I'm rambling a bit - but anyway, the point is, we knew he was gay before he was ready to say it to anyone or even admit it to himself properly. For FIVE YEARS. So we knew that he WAS gay before he ever made the "choice" to be openly gay / start any sort of homosexual relationship. So saying that it's a "choice" makes no sense. If that was the case, no one would have noticed any "gay traits" until he "chose it". Surely.

Unless he choose it because everyone thought he was gay anyway :idc:

I joke, I Joke!!!!

I remember seeing an interview with Dale Winton, he was explaining how he was around his mother who was a dancer and all her beautiful friends from a very young age as well as a very fiery strong confident aunt.
To me in that he seemed to imply that it had a bearing on his development as he wanted to be them and emulated them. This isn't me putting forward an argument for nurture but it's always stuck in my mind as an odd thing to say as I had never heard anyone say anything like it before.

the fact that he wanted to be like them has no influence on sexuality

Good point Toy Soldier, nurture is wrongly equated with the choice argument... I do think nurture plays a role in the development of everyone's psyche (because that's what nurturing is - development) - just as someone can become afraid of spiders or become passionate about being a trapeze artist; someone can develop a love or hate for all sorts of things... but ultimately I think a person is born gay.

I started not likening girls when I was about 13, so I don't know if it's nature or not but I don't care that much :laugh:

Well, thing is, people say, infact someone in here already said, I liked boys from when i was born. That to me is absurd lol most "straight" boys hate girls until they're almost at a teenage stage. My 9 year old still closes his eyes if he sees people on TV kissing :laugh:

Says the 30 years old man who was dressed like 15 yo skater on New Year's Eve.

I know what you mean, I am 16 now, I think when your about 12 or 13 you open up to your sexuality

Five years from now, she sits at home
Feeding the baby, she's all alone

As a straight boy, that's not necessarily true. I remember having sort of attraction feelings but not really understanding them, and from my own experience it was easier to say that I hated girls to avoid being teased about different girls and having a girlfriend. I definitely didn't hate girls, but I wasn't equipped to deal with the other side of the coin.

[...] Looks up at the man
That she turned dooooowwwwn


http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/n...7sshouting.gif

[..]Now he's a superstar
Slamming on his guitar
Does your pretty face see what he's worth?

God I remember not finding Avril annoying and repetitive, she was pretty great back then

mmm well, i was never a boy, straight or not so I don't know :laugh: I actually don't even remember myself at what point I noticed an attraction to the opposite sex

I think it's normal for kids to do the whole "ugh, gross" thing at kissing, think you only really become aware of romantic feelings when you're like 12 or 13

yeah, I think that's when I became interested

Yes me too, but for some the psycho-sexual stimulus is felt earlier due to environment.

I'm begging a mod to add this to emoticons!

:laugh:

Yeah I agree with you about some people being affected earlier than others... interesting topic, I hope it's something that can be proven some way in my lifetime!

Agreed; I distinctly remember having "feelings" for a girl in my class when I was 6 :hugesmile:. I remember telling my mum's friend (in confidence) that I had met a girl at school who I was going to marry. And being confused when she wouldn't stop giggling :(.

But yeah, I also remember being "chased" by a group of girls who were pushing along another girl who apparently "fancied me" trying to get us to kiss when I was maybe 8 or 9. It was all running away and "Eww! Yuck! I hate girls!!" but it was more just embarrassment / not knowing how to react.

I also remember a few 8 and 9 year olds having "girlfriends and boyfriends" ... and also, a 10 year old boy getting a blowjob from a 12 year old girl behind the bike sheds. How ****ed up is that? At the time it seemed like he must have been "so cool"... but thinking about it now... children! Children getting sucked off at school :(. So messed up, hahaha.

Well I think when the debate has only opened up to "nature or nature", providing only two options, it's going to encourage a decisive opinion. It's a bit like asking someone if they're left or right, politically, when in reality if you asked someone in detail about their political views you'd find that two people who responded with the same answer actually have totally different views and can't possibly be categorised as being of the same opinion.

I agree that our understanding of sexuality is limited, but from what we do/don't know at this stage, I think it's very easy to say it's nature or nurture; we just don't know.

:worship:

I'm not offended.

Speaking personally, it isn't a choice I made to feel the way I do about men. It affects my relationship with my dad to the point where I don't like him a lot of the time and vice versa. He's dead against gay people in every shape and form. My brother is gay and he's in a serious relationship with another man, one day I think they will get married and my father has stated quite ignorantly, that he wont be attending, and that he doesn't agree with it. No one would choose to be outcasted and made to feel inadequate of their own accord.

Although I have had relationships with women, (one quite serious, until she cheated on me :inamood: ) I'm now settled within myself about my feelings towards men but like I say, it affects my relationship with my dad, and we were once quite close. When he got wind that I liked cock he slipped away. I wish it was different of course, but thats the way it is.

If only it was a choice I could make :fist:

Glenn :hug: do you talk to your brother about it?

Yeah we talk about it all the time. It doesn't phase him tbh. I always worried how people would treat me. I came out to him first because he had already done it.

He helped a lot :love:

That's good, at least you have each other! It's your dad's loss if he wants to ignore you for something you can't change :hug:

It's impossible to study because there's no way to tell who is gay and who's not because so many gay people are in the closet. Also what does gay mean? Does it mean any one that has ANY sexual attraction to the same sex? or does it only mean people who have full on relationships with the same sex? or does it mean anyone who's ever had actual sex with someone of the same sex? Does it mean just people who label themselves gay?

We can't even define what gay means so how can we actually study it?

As far as my romantic and sexual attraction to men, I personally believe it is biological. I certainly never made any kind of "choice" to be gay and there is nothing in my childhood that I could point to and think "that might have made me gay".

My brother always says, 'We're not the abnormal ones' :laugh:

Its only my dad that has a problem with it. The rest of the family embraced it like it was the norm. My grandad was a bit on the fence and if he disagree with it, he keeps it to himself instead of vomiting ignorant bile. My dad on the other hand is a different kettle of fish.