I don't know why you're acting as my opinions on this matter should come as a surprise. I've been pretty consistent in my views throughout, and you quoted me in this thread this morning, not the other way round. I didn't go looking for this discussion with you.

I don't assume I have all the right anything, but if that's how you felt able to be dismissive towards me for absolutely no good reason, then fill your boots.

Your opinions don't surprise me. Similarly mine shouldn't come as a surprise to you, surely. I'm dismissive toward you because I disagree entirely. With everything. It's allowed.

No of course they don't, but I didn't feel the need to be dismissive of you in quite the same way. Like you've already said, we might as well leave it at that.

I apologise if you felt I was being dismissive. And yes... we should leave it.

Oh a really brilliant post Livia and the real depressing thing is that every word is true.

The comparisoon oif the 2 scenarios,the brutal murder of Lee and the massive pain inflicted on his family not to mention his young son,all negative.
Then these 2 as you say getting this treatment as the other scenario.

Me, I would have handed them over to the army and turned a blind eye to whatever they saw fit to do with them.
Sorry but this murder really sickened me.

A dog that more than likely knew no better but bit someone badly enough that they died would get put down right off, what these did is an insult to any behaviour and decency as to human and animal existence.

So annoying that they only get what you have so eloquently outlined in your many posts above.
Really well said Livia.

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http://media.skynews.com/media/image...-1-720x960.jpg

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[Facebook kept quiet about Rigby killer's plotting: Damning report into soldier's slaughter
by fanatics reveals social media giant's silence over extremist's messages]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz3K7wXV8dl


http://news.sky.com/story/1380228/fa...illers-message

Okay, facebook have some questions to answer on this, no doubt at all, I hate facebook anyway but in the end facebook cannot be the scapegoat here.

We have security forces that should always be on the lookout for things like this,face book are not security forces, I am just so furious still that Lee Rigby lost his life in this brutal way in his own country.
I really hope soldiers are more looked out for now, this has gone on from last year when this tragic cruel murder took place.

I do find it astonishing that no one else on facebook, if they read this intent to kill a soldier,didn;t alert some authority to it and if anyone did, then why wasn't more done.
Also since this vile pair of things were known and even under suspicion, why weren't they kept under surveillance too.
It seems as in many things ike this, results of what has been concluded, raise more questions than any it answers.

I still can feel really physically sick when I think of what happened to Lee Rigby and my fury at his barbaric murderers just hasn't abated at all.

is this the cop that killed a black guy that lead to the London riots?

Well the woman who was beheaded in public in america a month or so back, had something similar to this...

The man who beheaded her, posted anti-american things all over his facebook... apparently some of it was really violent too...

Surely facebook should be able to see what is posted on their website?

These two f'cks need strapping to the next two bombs bound for ISIS in Iraq.

1,000 % This.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: She's back!

And I would willingly help you.

I admire your pacifistic passion, but in my view - with respect to you - it is sadly misplaced when dealing with the evil, inhuman scum we are discussing here.

I would not harm a fly in my garden, nor go scouring the sewers to kill rats, but I would think nothing of reaching for the fly spray or rat poison should such disease carrying vermin enter my home.

Talking to cold-blooded, terrorist murderers or trying to appease them, is as futile as trying to reason with the above vermin to leave my home - debate and discussion demand someone who is genuinely willing to listen to you and who will sincerely try to understand what you are saying, as well as a common language in which to communicate. Sadistic fundamentalist butchers only speak and understand one language - violence.

Unilateral pacifism - like unilateral disarmament - achieves nothing except enabling your enemy - in this case, these Islamic Fundamentalist bastards - to achieve their aim more easily and quickly, and that aim is total subjugation of every individual, every race, every nation which is not Islamic.

You write; "I've never heard of anyone changing their mind on an issue after being beaten into submission." Try preaching that to the innocent victims of Jihadi John or any of the hundreds of thousands of other innocents who these insane monsters have slaughtered and 'beat into terrified submission'.

As for: "You don't change peoples ideologies by having bigger guns, and being more or equally lethal, you do it through actions and dialogue over time." -- Well time is something we frankly do not have, because these barbaric fundamentalist butchers self proclaimed true agenda is to conquer country after country, so unless you can talk these mad beasts into a ceasefire, and a cessation of all their butchering and bombing whilst we implement your "Action and dialogue over time" proposition, then I'm afraid "bigger guns and being more lethal" will do for me.

In addition, I've seen the results of "dialogue" with madmen -- In 1938 Adolf The Turd signed a 'non-aggression pact', guaranteeing not to go to war with Britain. 'Peace for our time' the pacifistic dreamer Chamberlain called it.

And well before that, the Roman Emperor Valerian negotiated 'peace talks' with his enemy Sharpur I after the battle of Edessa. Valerian rode with a small entourage into Sharpur's camp and was instantly betrayed and taken prisoner. Valerian spent the rest of his life in miserable captivity as the personal slave of Sharpur who even used him as his personal 'mounting stool'. Upon death, Valerian was skinned and his corpse hung up to rot as a warning to all Sharpur's enemies not to cross him.

As with Adolf, I think Valerian's rotting corpse should have served as a warning to all Sharpur's enemies not to trust him.

As we should never trust these barbaric demented Islamic Fundamentalists either.

I am sorry that I cannot agree with what you say, but I do respect your right to say it.

Remember this was at the time not a crime based on religious intolerance, it was a symbolic act designed to raise awareness of the grievances they had towards British foreign policy.
It is a predominantly political agenda that is moving light years away from religion at breakneck speed.

These are not inherently evil people, these are radicalised people who have been indoctrinated to believe that brutality and murder are a way of thrusting their ideologies into public consciousness by means of force.
These individuals are perceived to be 100% at fault, they delivered the act personally but the rot at source that is feeding poison is also to blame.

One issue I have with the video however is it throws up another question, during the conversation with the bomb maker it is suggested that he is unaware that the British were against the war; However there have been suicide bombers and radicals from Britain.. Surely they know as a nation we were not 100% behind our government in the decision to go to war?