why has this turned into if someone was black or white would they still be popular :umm2:

does it even matter?

Charley is basically Helen, but don't suggest this - people just argue back by simply saying Charley had more 'depth' to her, whatever that means:joker: (especially when we saw Helen's soft side so many times, extending hands of friendship to Ashleigh and Chris despite them both turning on her many times for no reason, sobbing over the court case result).

Helen loved Pauline.

Helen bullied Jale, Christopher and Chris from the first night and picked on people who were weak such as those mentioned above and Matthew. She was a spiteful person and dragged her series down being head of a nasty group. Charley on the other hand was on the outside of the house and argued with Chanelle and Gerry, who both gave it back.

They were polar opposites :)

not here for people making out one is bad then the other, Ashleigh and Helen was bad as each other, they both showed a nicer side and a nasty side. Helen won so what, she won fair and square, it was so close, both of them are winners in my eyes

Were not comparing Ashleigh and Helen you spoon

We're talking about Helen and Charley now.

I'm far behind on this thread :laugh:

And Christopher and Chris didn't? :umm2: Jale gladly joined Helen in her final two weeks. She made the series, she didn't drag it down.

this

Pretty much.

Charley only showed a genuine nice side once she had been 'evicted' coincidence much? :hehe:

If Helen was black she'd have been called a sassy, fierce queen and one of the greatest housemates alongside Charley

She was bitching about Chris as soon as he entered, as she did Jale. She ysed to walk past people saying nasty things and cackling.

I've just explained my reasons for not liking Helen and how she is different to Charley but we'll just ignore that and carry on.

I love Aisleyne and Nikki for example, they are white.

I'll admit the thing with Jale was awful to watch and i wasn't a fan of Helen at the beginning, it was really uncomfortable to see happening.

But Chris argued with Helen, Matthew argued with Helen, Christopher argued with Helen and Ashleigh was just as nasty about Helen as Helen was about her, she only gave it to one person who didn't give it back.

You said she was on the outside of the house and only argued with Chanelle and Gerry :umm2:

Chirs and Christopher did nothing to Helen for what she did early on. They weren't equal arguments at all, Matthew did nothing. The only equal argument she had was with Danielle.

must we keep up this "finally we got an entertaining winner! she made the series!! because she was in it the whole time for no discernable reason considering every other reward and twist was reversed at some point!!!" facade

Matthew started Helen off by being a bitch about truth or dare

Unlike Helen who was the leafer of the inside group and who bullied people, whilst Charley's rows were equal and laughed at by her.

He said one comment, she exploded. Not normal.

yeah it pissed her off, we all get pissed off over something, I mean ruining a fun game is annoying

didn't Matthew comment on Helen's tits first? :think:

He didn't ruin it :joker: he said ew at a dirty question, she went mad and started calling him pigeon chested. Even her friends told her to calm down.

Matthew was an irritating twat anyway, his attitude would have wound me up too, especially if he looked down his nose at me like he did during that game.

No, that was later in the garden.

I'm not going to get overly involved in this but anyone who considered Helen entertaining needs to re-evaluate what they value as entertainment. What people forget about Helen was that she got incredibly tedious from a very early stage, yeah seeing her kick off was funny for the first week or so, but by the eighth week I know personally I was completely sick of her and saw her as a draining figure rather then one of enjoyment. Most people have been trying to compare Helen to Charley, but I think a more apt comparison would be Sallie Axl, both abrasive and aggressive and lacking the pantomime factor in the way someone like Charley did and crossing the line from 'banter' into pure venom. The only difference between the two being that Sallie left before people could get sick of her whilst Helen had the season built around her and drained the entire life out of the show.

lol @ comparing Helen to Charley

I'm late to the party but my two cents on The Helen Wood Thing:

I get why Charley and Helen are comparable at face value but eh. Charley's immature and narcissistic hotheaded and a fame***** while Helen's bitter and nasty who has petty feuds with anyone and everyone around her. And, like, what reflects worse on Helen than the fact that her main rival in the house was closer in age to her son than to her? Charley benefits from the fact that her arguments were either hilarious (Billi, Chanelle) or righteous (Gerry, Ziggy) or both. There are catchphrases and quotables and so many iconic moments surrounding Charley. Helen was just incredibly basic (karl's Sallie Axl comparisons are spot on) and her arguments were suffocating and sanctimonious. If you said something to her face, she'd turn it around and put words in your mouth. If you said something about her in the DR, she'd twist what you said and shout WELL THAT'S WHAT I HEARD because she's so damn insecure and interprets anything that can be seen as a personal attack as one, assuming the worst of everyone but the best of herself. The difference between Helen and Charley is the difference between drama (which in and of itself is not automatically entertaining) and entertainment.

As for other reasons why BB15 was goddamn atrocious and why I don't care for Helen at all, I think her presence was a huge damper on the series. Helen is an early boot character, there's no denying that. If she stayed her time and followed Pauline in the eviction order (or even preceded her, entirely possibly) and we only had to deal with her for two or three weeks, I might even be able to appreciate her ironically for her short-lived belligerence like I can with Alexandra De-Gale. Like, she would've been in and out just like that and things would've moved on. Instead, we were stuck with her for much longer than anyone would've bargained for and she reigned over the house like a tyrant, fully expecting everyone to ingratiate themselves with her and her clique of dickish boys because, again, that's how Helen's mind operates. Everyone's wrong except for her. The notion of "power trip" is absurd because there was no power up for grabs. Pauline was the architect of everything by giving Helen the pass to the final, and once she was evicted the power shifted as thus. Everyone's social standing in the house was based on their relationship with Helen and there was no room for social mobility without compromising your own beliefs.

I guess that's about it. There are plenty of others factors I could discuss about why BB15 was so awful, including the poor production team and the ****ing unimaginative casting, but that's for another lengthy post. BB15 was ****ing garbage.

:clap1: Karl :clap1::clap1:

And Helen was what exactly? :laugh:

I'm gonna give a bit of a longer post as to what my thoughts are later on, but to say that Helen is a prime example of what's wrong with the human race is an understatement.. But wait, it's okay, because she's 'telling it like it is!' and she's 'been on a journey!'.

:clap1:

Okay, this is my stance on the whole Helen/BB15 debate, and I must say that Troy has got it pretty spot on.

BB15 was completely ruined, partly by prodcuers and by Pauline (although she can't really be to blame). Giving Helen immunity until the final essentially took away the core aspect of the entire theme and made it into 'Big Brother: Helen Trip', which was endured for 10 weeks. She was viewed as leader by her clique/'gang' (as drippy Ash referred to it as) because of this, and winning the power didn't matter, because whoever gained the power still had zero control over anything that happened; Helen did. If Helen didn't like a housemate (and let's be real, this was pretty much anyone who she didn't view as part of her group), everybody else knew about it and therefore everybody else acted upon it. It didn't matter if Helen was being too quick to make judgements (declaring her hatred for Chris after knowing him for about an hour), she was in the right and her group followed suit.

Now, I cannot fathom how quick people were to forget about her treatment of Jale. Forget Matthew, Christopher and the others who she regularly had arguments with, this was a prime case of bullying which was disregarded rather quickly because it didn't involve race/skin colour and because Helen isn't male. Conor (BB13) was loathed (and rightly so) for his behaviour towards Deana, because his treatment of her was disgusting. So why is it that we can allow for a woman in her 30's to be made to feel isolated, be picked on, be referred to as names (the slug?) and be made to feel uncomfortable by another person? Would this have been forgotten about so easily had it been a male treating another person this way? Taking genders out of the equation, I think that the majority of us have been raised to know that the behaviour which Helen directed towards Jale is disgusting. But because Helen apologised, it was all made okay? If Helen's constant apologies meant anything, then maybe.. But they didn't. Not one of them. Each time she was hurled up to the DR, she might as well have said 'Well, I'm sorry but I don't really care and I'm gonna do the same thing in a couple of days time'. Admittedly, if it wasn't for Jale's worse trait to still want to climb up Helen's arse despite everything, she could have been a bit easier to root for.

I'm all up for some fantastic, entertaining and even argumentitve character to win Big Brother. But Helen wasn't fantastic, she certainly wasn't entertaining and her only point of interest was constantly having arguments and shouting over people to feel a bit better about herself. Do I care about her journey? No, because it clearly hasn't made her any less of a negative person.

Big Brother: Helen Trip :joker: that is the perfect summation of the series

Underrated? Just no. It REALLY was that awful.

Amazing post.

BB15 was a stinking pile of ****. That's all.

Jake :clap1:

tldr ha2ha2

Thank you!

It also really annoyed me how during Helen's interview, her treatment of Jale wasn't shown in the video/remotely discussed.. Then again, Jale isn't the property of Desmond's empire so it's hardly surprising.

:joker: :joker: :joker:

It's funny because it's true.

If you swapped Helen and Toya around Toya would have been adored for doing what Helen did and Helen would've been hated more by them.