I don't think you've noticed but they aren't exactly the minority of opinion in most threads :laugh:

Nothing braver than saying what everyone else is, right?

Yeah - like I love the futility of accurately describing the vista to a man who has full eyesight but won't open his eyes.

You have descended to the tradition of misrepresenting what I so clearly said, and ignoring concrete evidence because neither fits in with your own bigoted left wing views, and that it ill becomes genuine debate.

Sorry but I'm not the one generalising an entire ethnic group because some of that group commits crime??

It's literally no different from people who say we should have racial profiling because 'black people are more likely to commit crimes'. It's the same concept, and it's just as racist.

Just because racial slurs against roma people are less frowned upon than racial slurs against black/jewish/arabic people, doesn't make them any less abhorrent and disgusting, and doesn't eliminate the fact that bigotry like this has lead as far as genocide (with somewhere between 220,000 and 1.5 million romani people killed in Nazi Germany alone).

Are you drunk today? The three aforementioned members are in a CLEAR minority in most of the Serious Debate threads on here, and you are now being insulting because I always say exactly what I think irrespective of whether it is popular or not and I am sure from the evidence, that the other two do as well.

Come back and argue when you are older than 14 Josh and when you have life experience outside of that cyber/media bubble you so obviously dwell in.

A clear minority?? Last I checked most of the threads end up being "empire, the truth, kirklancaster, arista, LeatherTrumpet, Livia & co arguing for one side, and then me, kizzy, and occasionally joeysteele/DemolitionRed"

Also there's no reason to start getting personal, accusing me of being drunk, and belittling me because I'm younger than you. (and i'm 15 js)

Being wrongfully labelled a racist, xenophobe, etc.

I'd just rather not get involved when it's obvious how it will end up; me getting irritated by a 15 year old who thinks he knows the world inside and out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiziganism

The personal attack was cute too babes :love:

Right. Now IF you have any intelligence and honesty at all Josh - Give me a STRAIGHT answer to this:

WHERE IN MY POST DO YOU JUSTIFY WRITING THE DISHONEST CRAP ABOVE?:

"Sorry - But these 'people' are sterotyping themselves. I see nothing of the prototype in thieving, scrounging, threatening, and being lawless.

Yes - the majority of Roma Gypsies may well be upright, law abiding industrious people, but the ones in the OP are patently not.

Oh - unless - as I said earlier - the one's boasting and the others are actors being paid by some sinister Right Wing faction to portray Roma's in a bad light"

A cretin can see that you are misrepresenting what my post says. In the section which I have emboldened, I actually ALLOW the fact that these scumbag parasites in the video footage and article in the OP are NOT typical of the majority of Roma Gypsy people - so why are you misrepresenting what I have said?

That's not what i've seen (admittedly i don't venture to this subform often though). But it is brave when you have people throwing around the terms racist and xenophobic all the time, because people misuse those words (which are serious words) so much.

If we can't talk about the problem, then we can't solve it. There is no harm in talking about the issue here and in no way racist.

What's the link for? How does that have anything to do with my post? lol

If you find the truth "cute" then good for you Josh.

Your post on xenophobic scaremongering was very good actually I thought, and if you feel misrepresented in your views then I apologise because that was not my intention. But when you used the facepalm emote in response to my post on Roma people not being pests, I took that to be playing into the same xenophobic rhetoric that you claimed not to be a part of.

Your opinion has been a little shaky throughout this thread tbh, I'm not completely sure where you stand on this.. but perhaps my words were directed towards the wrong person here if you truly stand against antiziganism. If that is true then I apologise.

But to all those who deliberately played into the racist rhetoric against roma people and allowed for this thread to get so heated only to perpetuate your own hatred.. shame on you.

But its good that JoshBB is in here putting the other side of the argument up. I have respect for that and us old ones can always learn a lot from youth

(not that any of the women on here are old :hee:)

Thank you for not getting involved with the personal attacks here LT, I respect you for that :love:

This is exactly what is happening in the UK Dollface - the silent majority KNOW the truth but dare not speak it because of exactly the reasons which you have given as why you (and a lot of other members) do not come onto Serious Debates -- Being falsely accused of Racism, Xenophobia or some other 'ism' or 'phobia.

And it is a great shame.

I respect Josh for having an opinion and sharing it even when many others don't agree with him. I also respect his passion for multiculturalism. He is fighting the good fight, I just don't agree with the ways in which he does it, he acts as if every little thing is racist and that is not good for anyone.

I may only be 15.. but if I've learned anything it's that the only way hatred is accepted and spread is when it's referred to as 'truth'. Not to breach Godwin's Law or anything.. but it's exactly how Hitler did it. (of course the racism is nowhere near as extreme as his, but still)

I honestly fail to see how prejudice and stereotyping of an ethnic group isn't racist, and my intention is not to label people and shame them but to hopefully change attitudes. I hate racism and have seen friends face it, with one of my closest friends having to move from his street and consequently school because his neighbours were constantly racist to his parents (they're asian). I've also seen teachers visibly upset because they've been called a terrorist literally only for wearing a hijab when they're literally the happiest and one of the most kind and caring teachers in my whole school.

people from other countries in europe will tell you the truth in what roma gypsies, are really like, the left wing are giving these people the right to steal, beat people, and harass old people on the street, my dad and brother chased a few of them for trying to get money out an old lady's bag, and the police do nothing, some of the sex trafficking is caused by roma gangs, the greeks and italians call them rats, they dress rough because thats how they get there money when fake begging on the streets,

Yes, Josh. I do believe it. And what's more my beliefs are based on something. I've experienced the little gangs of pickpockets on the Tube, I've seen them begging and setting up camp in London. They are mostly criminals. Now, please don't get these people mixed up with Romany gipsies. I have a Romany camp not too far from where I live. There was a big fight against their planning permission around here I will admit, although I wasn't involved, but they are the nicest people, have the neatest grounds and restore the old horse-drawn caravans. They are interesting the friendly. Sadly they get tarred with the same brush as the Romanian gypsies who have really shown the Transport Police and the Met what a bloody nuisance they are. And more sadly, if anyone mentions what a nightmare they are they're branded racist. If there's stereotyping going on it's because they are stereotypical.

All I ever see from you is labeling and attempting to shame people. Being labelled a racist is incredibly insulting and insinuating someone is a racist is quite serious. If you did this sort of thing in the real world you could end up getting yourself in trouble (for example, if you labelled someone a racist at work, he/she could take you to court for it)

The way your friend and teachers were treated is disgusting, but those people (the ones who verbally abused them) are the type of people you should be saying this sort of stuff to. My year at school only had 1 Indian girl, 1 Muslim girl and 1 Black girl and I was friends with and loved them all (especially the indian girl, she was hilarious) and if anyone treated them the way your friend was treated I would have been so angry so I can get where your anger comes from, but it seems misplaced.

Here we go again Josh. Why are you accusing Dollface of supporting " people showing clearly raciist attitudes towards Romanis."?

The only supportive words Dollface wrote was admiring myself, Livia and Chaos for speaking our minds despite the risk of being called zenophobic or racist - Which, by the way is EXACTLY what has happened.

Thanks, I thought this myself but honestly I find it exhausting defending myself.

Hmmmm I'm too tired to think about my opinion on Roma clans right now but I just have to add to this thread;

Us SD&N regulars aren't "brave", we've just all been in these trenches so long that we've become sort of bulletproof :joker:. Even little Josh http://www.smiley-lol.com/smiley/ani.../chienmord.gif

And I'd add that both "sides" of any thread get slammed pretty hard around here, it's definitely not one sided, I find myself on the loony left quite a lot but have certainly been in agreement with the "other lot" on enough occasions to know that there's very little difference when it comes to how "brave" you have to be to make your point. SOMEONE'S going to be butthurt by it, and they're darn well going to make sure you know about it by golly by gum!

Wait, what's this thread about again? Oh yeah, gypsies. Ummm. It irritates me when they try to sell me **** flowers and then get abusive when I politely tell them to piss off. That's about as much as I can manage on the topic. Really effing tired.

Last thing I would want is for people to feel ashamed of themselves, that's everything I stand against and is the basis for which I usually label racist comments as prejudiced. Anything I've said was because the posts on here striked me as particularly racist against the Romani ethnic group and I was actually quite upset reading some of the things on here. I don't know any romani people personally but they are human beings just like me and you, and nobody deserves to be labelled and shamed as a criminal just because of their ethnicity.

I can relate to your story by the way. Seems that most of my friends are minorities too and they're all lovely people :laugh:

And THERE we have it Josh. You have NO direct experience of the type of people in the OP, yet you not only deny the evidence presented on tape and in the written word, but you also deny the first hand testimony of those who HAVE direct experience.

You cannot be taken serious. In a court trial you would be laughed out of court opposing such evidence with 'a feeling, a thought, a fancy'.

I'm a bit confused as to what a Romani person is, in all honesty. I always thought Romani = Gypsy = Someone who lives in a caravan ? But from the looks of things they're an ethnic group, so i'm pretty confused. :laugh:

Isn't Esmeralda from Hunchback of Notre dame a Romani gypsy? :unsure:

Like I said, I like and respect what you stand for, I just think your goal of changing peoples attitutes would be much more likely to succeed if you were to talk how you're talking right now, rather than using the words racist/xenophobe.

How many Romani friends do you have Kirk?

A romani person is a person of the Romani ethnicity (for lack of better wording). & I would have no idea with the second thing because I've never seen that movie :laugh:

I normally do speak to people like this but threads on here tend to get heated and I get caught up in it like others do.

I just genuinely think that 99% of the people on here arent racist and that it's silly to assume that someone is. I appreciate that you stick up for 'minorities' and what have you, but I think that there's times where you stick up for people, with a biased opinion and don't see the bad in them. Which I suppose isn't a bad thing. I just think that (in as nice a way as possible) the world is a lot different to how you see it. Schools are incredibly biased these days in the way that they teach. Once you start getting more freedom from school, once you go out and meet new people in ways other than school, you'll start to see the world differently. I'm sure you'll always be passionate about sticking up for minorities, and I will too. But I don't defend them when they are in the wrong, just because they have had a tough life.

I think that you've got a bright future ahead of you. And I totally respect you for that. But I think that you also have a lot to learn. The world isn't just black and white and minorities aren't always just poor little victims. I just think that words like 'racist' and 'sexist' and 'xenophobic' are thrown around waaaay waaay too much these days.

I just googled it and yes she is :amazed:

http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm...igt0o1_500.gif

:love: I'm bringing Disney into Serious Debates & News :laugh:

None Josh, but I HAVE direct experience of the type of scumbags in the OP. They infect certain areas of Doncaster where I own property and everything in the OP is true of these lawless arrogant bastards. I have had several run-ins with them, though my own properties have not been bothered by them, but a Landlord who owns a house on the same street has. He had garden ornaments and a bike stolen from his backyard and then surprised three men who were in the process of stealing a huge concrete ornamental planter. They attacked him and beat him up, and STILL took the planter.

Just for the record - I am NOT saying this is typical behaviour of the majority of Roma's, just those scumbags in the OP -- which is ALL this particular thread is about.

I'm all for it

Fair request Niamh and I apologise for my transgressions. I'm out of here anyway.

She was like my first ever love omg. I remember always watching the film just because of her

Party-pooper, where's the fun in that?

shurrup TS you looney leftie

:fist:

I always wanted her and Quasi to get together!!! D:

I don't have an issue with people coming over here if it's for genuine reasons, but we have enough crime in Britain as it is without foreigners coming over here to take advantage of our easy touch government, we're too concerned about looking good to the rest of the world to put our foot down and deport people if they don't bring something to the table for us, Government, especially right now are so concerned with cutting British people's benefits because a minority of the population are playing silly buggers with the system, but yet they're happy to allow people to come over here - who a lot of the time have no intention to work or to give back to a country willing to take them in - and scrounge off of the benefits so they can stay here and commit crimes against people, it's ludicrous.

If you want to come over here to work and live a better life for you and your family, come on over, you're more than welcome, but if you want to come over to break the law and do your own thing, then don't even bother coming, but if they do, send them back to where they come from, we have enough issues of our own without having to deal with people like that.

Totally and utterly agree, as always. Well said.

What I find intriguing, is we are all so busy defending people from other cultures and their rights to be here that we are allowing our national identity to slip a little. There was a story in the paper about a guy serving in the RAF being asked to leave a hospital waiting room for fear that his uniform would upset other cultures. This guy has served on active duty and he and all the other armed forces now and in the past have allowed us to enjoy our country as a safe and liberal place but it seems it is ok to offend people like that but God forbid you dare air views on other cultures for fear of being labelled xenophobic or racist (which I am neither). All the media hype about immigrants are fuelng people's distrust / dislike and making the situation worse IMO

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-patients.html