Wonder if the protesters in Cannock and Staffordshire were inbred too?... Seems inbreds follow IDS everywhere :/

First of all; I apologise for my terminology if your cousin was one of those taking part in this, but I hope that he was not one of the principals seen and heard in the video because:

This was NOT some 'peaceful protest' and the sheep-like bleating of 'Murderer' and the other cries WERE moronic.

These 'protesters' WERE right up against the car NOT '100 feet away'.

These 'protesters WERE intent in unlawfully preventing the car from leaving.

These 'protesters' WERE being threatening.

These 'protesters' were becoming increasing more volatile and if it were not for the police presence, this situation COULD and probably WOULD have escalated into some form of violence.

And NO - these 'protesters' would NOT have been 'hailed' by me had they been acting in the same undemocratic, intimidating manner against some 'Labour' politician.

And NO, Kizzy views have NOT made really good points all the way through - they have been countered and exposed and done more 'U turns' than Jeremy Corbyn.

This is supposed to be Serious Debates, but it is neither 'Serious' - when mere Left wing propaganda is not only trotted out without substantiation, but continues to be trotted out in the face of factual response to the contrary - nor is it 'Debate', when NOTHING is debated because the truth is ignored whenever that truth does not agree with wild Left Wing claims.

I did not vote Tory. I do not like IDS or agree with his policies, but neither do I agree with 'Mob Rule' or the attempt by ANY group to impose their will by threat and intimidation - against the laws of this country.

IDS has as much rights as anyone else to go about his lawful business without being accosted by ugly mobs - as did Farage when he was out with his family for a quiet lunch when another violent moronic mob invaded his privacy and jumped on his car - and I will reiterate just WHY I vehemently oppose these types of 'protests':

"We have a democratic process for expressing discontent with a political party, but more than that, we have a time-honoured tradition outside of that process for peaceful protest including heckling and jeering, and this being the GREAT DEMOCRACY it is, such peaceful protesters can exercise that tradition safe from being murdered or brutalised by the state - as in other countries.

These mobs are NOT peaceful protesters though - are they?"

Not everything bad in this country is the fault of the Tories, and the Labour Party and Left Wing are not some blameless paragons of virtue, but the ballot box and PEACEFUL orderly protest are the ways forward for anyone who disagrees with Government policy - NOT trying to impose their way by threat and intimidation.

I respect Joey and if he feels I have made good points then that his business I guess.
Nothing I have said has been countered or exposed and I have made no U turns on any issue.
This is news, it is and was reported in the news which is why I offered it up for discussion.
Nothing is being debated, all I have taken from your posts is the protesters have questionable parentage, which has offended at least one person as they are directly related to those accused.

Sorry Joey didn't notice this last night, thank you for your support I say well done to your cousin for voicing his feelings directly.
Government ministers are slowly becoming the untouchables who cannot be criticised or questioned as seen recently with Hunts representative refusing to respond during a live interview.
In a democracy there still has to be accountability, I feel slowly avenues are being blocked and sections of society are being theoretically kettled. These marginalised groups are then campaigning for awareness of their plight to reach the public for support, some being more successful than others.
Over recent months there have been countless reports of reduced charity funding, welfare relating to these with disabilities, resources, services and facilities.
Not to mention pressures due to housing issues relating to bedroom tax.

Who is listening... is it any wonder their voices are getting louder and louder and more desperate?
The 'I'm alright jack' attitude pervades until there is an ounce of civil disobedience, then the onus is placed not on the provocation but those who initiate that response for criticism!
It's crazy, pitting society against one another on every aspect is the order of the day.

I'm guessing some people in this thread would be a lot more sympathetic if the IDS weren't killing people on benefits because who cares about vulnerable people on benefits amirite? They're just parasites at the end of day aren't they so who cares if they're being erroneously taken off benefits they need to live and put in harm's way? They're just dole dossers and they deserve what they get because I pay taxes and that means I can pass judgement on my 'lessers' with a clean conscience.

The protesters didn't pose any kind of physical threat to the officials, the only threat they posed was that they wanted to delay them from their next appointment. These officials deserve to know the negative impact their murderous decisions are having, being called a murderer is a lot more civil than some of the more 'civilised and obviously better people' would have if they lost a loved one to the IDS' awful decisions.

Exactly at any moment any one of us are a fateful moment away from where these people are. The more I read back on certain regimes and attitudes to the mentally and physically incapacitated the more reminiscent it appears over recent times.

Irrespective of peoples feelings about IDS and I am among those who can't stand him. You cannot personally attack someone and try and stop him going about his business. He performed the same function in the last government, and people voted for that government to continue their work, which they are doing. Try and win the next election

37% of the electorate voted Conservative, who try win the next election, disabled people?
If they being personally affected feel justified due to the accusations of human rights violations to voice that to IDS then fair play. He's not the first politician to be harassed for his part in legislative changes and he won't be the last.
Some are slated more regularly for less

Keep quoting percentages all you like. That is the method of democracy that we have in this country. Sour grapes is all i see in this thread, no hint of respecting democracy that is LAW within our country.

Yes it is, nobody is suggesting that democratic proceedure be changed, the only issue is that of restrictions due to policy changes, legislative amendments and funding restrictions... 'sour grapes' mean nothing to me, what are these grapes in reference to?
Opinions have been voiced, no respect is given to policies which effectively kill people nor should they, which is why IDS has questions to answer in relation to human rights violations.

Excellent points all through,sadly lost on this thread.
I agree with every word you say.
I wasn't going to comment again but you are right as to how some see those on benefits and who also ignore the fact that IDS rarely if ever allows himself to be challenged or really take part in an in depth interview.

When people are dismissed and treated as if they are absolutely nothing by anyone so called democratically elected whose real purpose should be to serve, not dictate to an electorate,then frustration and anger will become evident towards such a 100% undeserving individual such as IDS.

I am proud my Cousin took part although it surprised me, however tramping people into the ground they walk on as IDS has done to the sick and disabled,then ignoring even those who work in the care and support of the most vulnerable will inevitably in the end, bring out the worst in people.
Even more sadly and wrong,is the way having power just barely,has brought out the extreme worst of not only IDS but a good number in this rotten govt.

Thanks for staying Joey, you know I'd go crazy without you :)
I'm proud of your cousin too it's an integral part of living in a democracy for public to voice their feelings, be heard and be responded to.
There seems to be a distinct lack of responses lately to anyone relating to anything. You'll see more than most things snuck in, passed without debate and rushed through.
Hunt threatened yesterday to go 'atomic' on jr doctors, so basically he's suggesting they agree or it's happening regardless... Is this in your opinion democratic or autocratic?

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

I am afraid that the message from certain posts on here is perfectly clear; that that NO yob behaviour or name calling or violence is wrong if it is carried out by Left Wingers and other subversives, against people they deem to be Right Wing.

I haven't seen anyone advocating violence, there wasn't a survey of the protesters to garner how they voted in the last election either so it can't be presumed they are right or left leaning.
Their grievance is with this policy and the minister currently under investigation only.

My cousin actually voted UKIP, only because of the belief that was the best assured way to get an EU referendum.
However the intense dislike for IDS and the policies of this govt towards the sick,disabled and most vulnerable provoked another strong emotion.

Hardly left wing at all but some will still generalise and indeed insult too.Without having full relevant information too Kizzy.

This thread was NOT about IDS's policy or any wrongdoing he may be guilty of. It was SPECIFICALLY about the 'warm reception' which he received in Peckham - to quote your own words - so all the copy-pasta in the world on anything else is irrelevant.

Violence does not have to be 'physical' - it can be implied, harrassment, vocal threat, intimidation, and a host of other forms, and my posts, AND others, dealt specifically with the those UNLAWFUL aspects of the said 'warm reception', but this is something which you and others have denied or lessened, or mitigated, or deflected. This may not strictly be DIRECTLY 'advocating' such violence, but it is condoning it nonetheless.

As for: "there wasn't a survey of the protesters to garner how they voted in the last election either so it can't be presumed they are right or left leaning."
This too is totally irrelevant, because I said - "Left Wingers and other subversives" and 'subversives' is the key word, because breaking the laws of this country to try to impose your will IN THE FACE OF DEMOCRATIC opportunity, is subversive.

As stated many times previously, any grievance which citizens of this country has with any government minister or his policies, can be addressed via the ballot box or by PEACEFUL ORDERLY time-honoured protest - NOT by UNLAWFUL mob rule and violence.

You REALLY have NO argument with which to counter the TRUTH of what I and others are stating here, but - as usual - you will all ignore that truth and argue anyway.

Well, as a sick, disabled vulnerable person I would be interested in his views, he could come and have a quiet cuppa with me and explain his policies in more depth.

'Warm reception' is how it was reported in the news item I offered for discussion, and the 'copy pasta' appropriate and relevant recent news items associated with this particular minister.

Things have to be found to be unlawful, shouting isn't unlawful. He was able to come and go without incident.

We have freedom of speech laws, if it is undemocratic to voice your opinion to a minister why have these if to act on them renders you labelled 'subversive'?
As validated at least one protester can be shown to not be traditionally left wing, maybe then accusations of left wing bias at the protest is supposition?

The truth is there was no violence, none.

Good luck with that,he won't talk to anyone who can challenge him and in all interviews it is like an old pals act with the interviewer.
I would not be surprised he sets the tone of what can be asked and when.

He is the work and pensions secretary, on a Question time programme he was not even asked a single question as to benefits, the sick and disabled.

Actually however, what I would like to see him do is listen to those who have to go along to the obscene disabled work assessments and see exactly how they enact the policies the has put in place, the degrading treatment those sick and disabled in the main get there and not only them but carers or family/friends who go along with them.
I'd like to see him made to fill in every stupid and pathetically planned ESA form with its ridiculous questions for those who have to claim it.

There is a question there that says can you lift the equivalent of a pint of milk from one place to another.
I filled the form in for someone who suffers dementia and put 'no because it will end up going all over the floor'

However anyone answering that gets no points towards their claim for ESA for that question.
Idiotic waste of paper and time of those having to claim or who has to fill in such a stupidly laid out form.

So although you would likely get him for a 'free' cup of tea, I wouldn't expect to anything other as to answers, than 'that shouldn't happen' and 'he has seen no basis to anything like that',whatever you may raise with him, as if anyone questioning him should be seen as stupid too.

He has plenty sent to him from welfare organisations, charities, the CAB, and also independent carers,medical or otherwise and also family, friends and neighbours of people sick and disabled.
All of which just gets a curt dismissal usually on his behalf and rarely from him himself.
All he can do is hide behind his Parliamentary position, facing no one face to face unless he wants to and likely on his terms only too.

Kizzy, it is because of his policies he is so hated by people who cannot get fairness and compassion from him.
This thread is and should be about everything as to his policies, it is his policies that make him the individual he is as to Politics.
As in the post that Dezzy made earlier.
It is also why he gets the attacks he does too.

There was no violence,they were not inbred morons and you are right 100% in my view.

Seems a bit silly having to answer a question that does not go towards the point system, unless it gives them a better overall picture.
I have to say I have no complaints, from the day my daughter rang up to enquire, everybody has been very kind and helpful. The lady explained in detail what would happen and what I needed to do so I found it quite simple.
The nurse that came out to see me was lovely. She told me I would hear from them in approx 8 weeks. They contacted my doctor for a report and we're happy to go along with what she told them.
I received a letter in just over three weeks telling me that money had been put in the bank and what my 4 weekly payment would be.
I didn't have to move from my chair.
Mine wasn't ESA it was PIP. I do realise that a lot of people are having bother with it all, but only fair to show the other side of the coin.

Thanks for that Joey I of course agree, his policies are some of the most dangerous in modern politics. Nobody who has had direct or indirect experience via family and friend could justify what they have done to the most vulnerable in our society.

I think off the top of my head I have assisted,either in going along to an assessment for ESA or helping fill in the form for it for somewhere around 90+ people now.
At the assessments,I witnessed only 15 where things went smoothly and where the person was treated with respect.

In my job in Law, I have assisted with cases for appeals of loss of benefits or benefits being cut,too many times to mention now, each one I have heard of and actually seen go to Court in the end as the last resort,( after the DWP waste time supposedly looking at it again but not even getting in touch with Doctors, Consultants or carers), I have yet to come across a single one where the appeal was not upheld either in full or in part.

Of course some run smoothly,and all goes well but I have found that to be the minority more likely than the norm.
Such as today,Frank Field who this govt and IDS like to commend for his welfare plans and work in the past and his ideas too for the future at times.
He has pointed out that sanctions are being made on a scale never before seen and there are people dropping out the welfare system with no record of what is happening to them no protection and probably falling into destitution.

What is IDS and the DWP response to that, 'there is no basis to the claims'.
Dismissed instantly without even looking at it.

Well done for anyone who gets their ESA sorted quickly and without hassle, the last one I just helped with for someone they were left waiting 13 weeks to get the decision.
The sad thing is for those who it all goes smoothly for,that should be the norm for everyone across all justified benefit claims and sadly its not the case at all, and its getting worse.
Even now moreso with the planned stopping of financial assistance by this govt. for those who are left at the end with no choice but to fight their case in Court.
Thereby removing under the greedy guise of austerity,rights to justice for benefit claimants.

Crikey! thanks for sharing that Joey, you must have seen countless tomes the frustration and hopelessness of those fighting tooth and nail against the system just to be heard :( I've been on ESA following an illness luckily for me by the time I was sent a letter to attend a WCA I was 99% recovered, had I not been I would be in the boat of having to prove myself as doctors opinions appear to count for nothing do they?
People like yourself will be a godsend for those who don't have the strength or knowledge to fight this and get the support they need, well done Joey you are one great guy! Anyone with you on their side is extremely lucky :D

There has got to be a point in this country where we say enough, you can't shrink our services any longer everything is being scaled back to bare essentials, how can we function as an efficient civilised society on a shoestring? Something has to give, communities are being broken down, families scattered. A decent standard of living is unobtainable for a growing number of families leading to record numbers of children growing up in poverty. I've never thought that there could be a breaking point.. But it's feeling ever closer :/.

I post my views whether anyone agrees or not, I avoid things like inbred moron generalisation andinsults and also personal attacks to other members however.
I have reached a point at times it is pointless I feel to even try to alter someones thinking as I don't believe some even listen to what I am saying.

That does not bother me in the slightest but I am member too and if I find anyone that agrees with my stance and opinion, then naturally I will support that view and even expand on what I have said to them with further debate with thembecause they are at least listening and will not come back with any uncalled for or unnecessary insults.

No one can dictate or should dictate where a thread goes as long as it stays on topic,you said IDS policies should 'not' be an issue on this thread.
I disagree absolutely with that, his policies are the full reason people get aggressive towards him and he invites that.
It doesn't make them 'inbred morons' and it also does not in my view make them wrong to get at him whenever the opportunity, rare opportunity too that is, even arises.

Also no one ever needs to worry about being banned if they stay within the rules and show a little respect even while disagreeing with other members.
With full respect.no need for terminologies that may not be acceptable to the person being termed or called something at all.

Non-violent protest is a key aspect of democracy.

:clap1: :clap1: Thank you Joey I agree 100%

I work in a school for special needs and was asked to help families with English as a second language with their claim forms after all the negativity I have I read was pleasantly surprised at how organised it was, some families claims increased as well so it's not as bad as portrayed

...it's nice to hear that your experience has been more positive, Cherie...but just touching on that point of schools, this is something that we've/our school has been discussing a lot recently...we're having pupil referral unit after pupil referral unit closing down in our area, leaving nowhere for children who just can't fit into a main school environment to go...no school wants to not be able to take these children but sometimes just can't facilitate them, either in space they have or in finance because there's pretty much no help given/either financial or in the way of outside support/support they and their families so desperately need...also, so many referrals we're making being turned down/so those children and their families who are struggling so much and to the point of breaking in many cases...they're pretty much stuffed ..if any politician, not just IDS, but any politician had a child themselves who couldn't cope with main school environments ...would they ever think for one split second that some of the cutbacks made were ever acceptable...I doubt it...I can't imagine how it must feel to have a child who needs a more one to one type education because of their problems, to have places who could give them that being removed and to be told time and time again...no sorry, we would love to but just can't, it just isn't possible/no room at the inn I'm afraid because some children need their own classroom to themselves/a teacher to themselves etc or at least be in a very tiny group...

..there are still positive experiences, I agree..there are still some with us as well but sadly over the last few years, they've become fewer and fewer and are starting to become completely overshadowed by the more negative ones...for us it's just sad and frustrating but for those children and their families, it's so much more..they are not being given any, any chance in life...

KAZ
do not let the Left Wingers
scare you away


I want Everyones view


TIBB is a Demo- cracy

Thats a great mini song for a Robot

...as for the OP and that specific incident...I think most of us know that 'there is a right way and wrong way' to address things but there are also decisions made that are so completely detached from the reality of lives/the impacts of lives that sometimes that has to be actually seen by the decision makers..that people feel that they have to actually 'go up and say in someone's face'...look, we are real people here, can you see us...(not that I think sadly that it would make any difference at all..)...but I do understand those whose lives are so impacted or know people who have been... that they have to 'show themselves' ...

Thanks Ammi, yes that's the crux of it, there just doesn't seem to be a way out for many. It's not simply form filling that's the issue it's the restrictions in social care, childrens services, mobility, the cuts to adult mental health, transitions from DLA to PIP, WCA.. endless.
For months and months there have been reports of cuts and spokespersons crying out for support, peaceful protests in London and locally. It's only now that it has reached breaking point and that it's even noticed but to criticise, it's just really sad to see so little empathy shown to those who need a hand up not a boot in the face.

I don't think there is a lack of empathy, yes cuts are happening , but this demonstration was about form filling and being labelled "fit for work" and the change of system from DLA to PIP, this change has caused alot of needless stress for families as we only hear the negative stories in the media, families are frightened by what they hear, so as Smudgie said it's just showing the other side, that the system is not broken for everyone and in some case claimants are better off, no one is denying there haven't been shameful faults with the system but equally there have been success stories.

:clap1::clap1::clap1: Balance and truth.

Filling the fit for work form in is the easy part, the work capability assessment is the issue.
There is a lack of empathy in general imo, mention the word welfare and the word that springs to mind as the most prevalent descriptor in the media is 'scrounger'.
I agree there will be those who have had a seemless transition I'm glad of course Smudgie did, yet is this representative?
It's not just welfare affected, it's swathes of cuts to vital services and resources leaving mentally and physically incapacitated stranded, on a national level how many people is it feasible to suggest have benefited form the cuts?

I'm only speaking from my own experience with families and yes in all cases it has been seemless and two families were moved up while the other 3 remained on the same level, I repeat I am well aware that people are falling through the cracks, and that services are being reduced, all I am saying is not everyone has been treated badly and I think this message is just as important for stressed claimants to hear as the negative stories.

And again that's great, yet again nationally cases of individual cases or cracks and claimants pale into insignificance when weighted against the cuts to services, facilities closed and resources stripped.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gene...s-obscene.html

http://www.theguardian.com/education...nts-jo-johnson

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-10237191.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...sabled-6802010

The first few hits to 'disability cuts' on google ( don't you just love google?)

Doesn't even scratch the surface...

There should not be any faults at all in making sure people have their rights to what should be available for them and what they are genuinely entitled to.

The fact there are so many faults shows the policy has not been planned properly or that it is being enacted properly.

Great for the ones where all goes well but for those who it goes wrong for, it is massively stressful time to people who are already under great stress anyway,being vulnerable and stress too is of no assistance to people genuinely ill and disabled.

I love it when I come across a claim that gets done quickly,however, I find more and more having massive problems and lengthy delays too
Just because things maybe goes right for ,does not mean it is in any way right, and nor should it be, that for many, things go wrong and take far too much time to sort out.
To try to justify something being good when so much is going wrong, and people are being left with fewer and fewer outlets to get assistance with the problems too,is equally wrong in my view too.

The man responsible for it all is IDS and no wonder he gets jeers and shouts wherever he goes.
I rarely raise my voice to anyone, I doubt I could control that if I ever had the misfortune to come across him, from what I have seen as to the devastating effect of his heartless polices.

Britain's previously good record on housing was being eroded by a failure to provide sufficient quantities of affordable and social housing, the report said, with the result that "the structural shape of the housing sector has changed to the detriment of the most vulnerable". It called on the UK government to invest more in social housing.

The report did not hold back from documenting the combined impact of welfare reform and the housing crisis on vulnerable people, which Rolnik found on her visit had left many low income, disabled and homeless people in "tremendous despair".

And the heartless twonks dismiss this as diatribe :bored:

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...on-bedroom-tax

And just WHERE pray tell, is all the billions needed to build ENOUGH housing going to come from? ESPECIALLY if we continue to SWELL the population by OPEN DOOR FREE FOR ALL IMIGRATION policies?