Dezzy I swear you are a one man polling machine

'a bunch of people who didn't know what they were voting for swung the vote for the wrong side'

can we have the poll and the figures that you must have run to come to that conclusion?

surely you are not basing this on anecdotal evidence?

:shrug:

Have you made your point now? Can we move on?

Well no, to vote remain would be to keep the Status Quo so it's not really comparable since it's easier to understand the effects of remaining in the EU then it is to leave. A large section of voters very likely decided to throw this entire country off course on a whim.

I get that you're against the decision, Dezzy.... but it's a decision that's been made. If the Remain camp were as fired-up a week ago as they are now, the result would have been different. I'd suggest waiting to see what's going to happen because it's not going to be as bad as you're all predicting, quite the reverse. But there really isn't a choice.

The Constitutional Law Association have some very interesting discussions going on. Looking at the legalities behind this treaty, we still have a long way to go.

https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/blog/

Nick Barber, Tom Hickman and Jeff King https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/blog/

The King by his proclamation… cannot change any part of the common law, or statute law, or the customs of the realm…

Does this mean Cameron, under the 'Rule of Law' can not action Article 50?

If we need to have a new Act of Parliament to action Article 50 and a new Act of Parliament can only be actioned by MP's, we may soon discover that we are not leaving the EU after all because if we don't implement Article 50 then we can't leave the EU

See I generally agree with this in principle, I really do. I was pro indy last summer, I voted Yes, and I was gutted when 55% voted "no". I also believed that a huge chunk of that vote was based on lies (which has, unquestionably, turned out to be true). However I accepted that that was simply the lay of the land. 55% No, 45% Yes. If the vote had been cast a month earlier, a week later, months later, the figure would have been the same, truly the will of the people whether I agree with it or not. I still reserve the right to complain but I wasn't one of those stupidly demanding an immediate re-vote.

I am not so convinced this time around though... I don't think the result would stand. I don't think it would even be close - I think there could easily be a HUGE swing to "Remain" - and that feels like a problem? I don't know what the solution is... but, if the majority of a voting public are no longer represented accurately less than a week after a vote... it just seems like something has gone very wrong with the democratic process.


However, like I said earlier I think another vote would do more harm than good. Things will stabilise of course. In my opinion they will stabilise in a position where the country and each of us indvidually is worse off... but, it will at least be "calm waters" eventually... we will know where we stand. The damage of the out vote is done and a revote would only mean more uncertainty on top of that, chipping away the foundations, and only making things yet worse.

However I'm not going to pretend that the current state of affairs represents the current will of British people as a whole. It just doesn't.

I think everyone should follow this link and report this fraudulent and undemocratic petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/feedback

I'm not disputing the decision, like I said in my first post on this topic. I don't want a second Referendum. I want people to face the reality of the choices they've made but I'm also going to have an opinion on it and you just have to deal with that.

There's no way to know how bad it's going to be but the experts that Brexit supporters ignored because it didn't suit their narrative have been grim about the outcome and that's coming to pass. Blind optimism and naivety in place of solid plans got us into this mess in the first place, it's time to face up to reality and accept the fact that this won't blow over just because we want it to.

It's a tricky one

The People voted and decided what they wanted and that's what happened, that's how a democracy works

But that fact that a huge chunk of the leave campaign was pure lies should be reason enough to to let people vote again now they know the real consequences of their vote

They know what happens when we are in the EU, and know what happens when we are not now

But it shouldn't be for at least a couple years in case things settle

well actually the stock market has pretty much recovered most of the losses already after just 5 days lol

How ridiculous would our country look if we voted again and this time decided to remain in the EU? Imo it's stupid to want another vote, the decision has been made. There's lots of decisions in life where you don't get a second chance, this should be one of them.

Ok what about this for an idea.....we negotiate with the EU regarding any and all possibilities....looking at all the rules we wish to abide by and over rule and the eec trade options....the eu simply have to be more flexible on their trade / open borders hard line stance.....they must understand the UK population rose 3.7 million in 10 years whereas germansy fell by 2 million in the same time period. so why dont the sit down and agree an immigration cap for uk and for countries that have had the most immigration and over population? the fact is the uk economy is growing wya quicker than others and wages too....so the people are always wnating to come here.....it has to see flexibility on both sides...IF some kind of compromise middle ground cna be found, then the government could either agree to that or put that new deal to a general election or a second referendum in months to come

Yes,I would go for that.
That is a really good compromise on all sides 'the truth'.

Truth for PM :cheer:

No, I think the EU are done with us now we negotiated a deal in feb and still voted out, there are areas within the EU with much bigger problems than us so I think they are well within their rights to say ok UK foff now we have other things to do.

The stock market is global, if anything global markets recovering quickly in only an indication that (thankfully) the UK's status isn't as integral to global stability as some might have thought / dreamed. It's really no indication of the situation for the UK itself.
To be fair Kizzy that's too extreme to be realistic. With the UK being a net "customer" for the EU (buying more than selling) a complete "f off" would create large holes in those countries' budgets. More likely is that the UK simply won't be able to negotiate terms that are even close to as favourable as they would like and so will end up "short" compared to trading within the union. There dies simply have to be a deal of some description... It's just this idea of Britain "dictating the terms" that is pure fantasy.

Yes that's sort of what I meant not a total FU but we will just have to go through the channels of all the other non EU countries with regard to negotiation, hence him putting a stop to private consultation with EU leaders directly.

That attitude will backfire, it will massively hurt their own economies as uk buys more of their stuff than anyone else. uk is the richest per head country in europe and without any UK input a far bigger financial burden will fall upon germany and france to basically subsidise the long line of virtually bankrupt countries. The EU simply has to renegotiate its open borders ruling. As it stands


as usual the greatest visoinary poet of all time predicted this all


"The Times They Are A-Changin'"

Come gather 'round people
Wherever you roam
And admit that the waters
Around you have grown
And accept it that soon
You'll be drenched to the bone
If your time to you
Is worth savin'
Then you better start swimmin'
Or you'll sink like a stone
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is
Rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'.

The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is
Rapidly fadin'
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'.

Errrrr I'm not sure where you're getting those figures Truth - we're 10th or 11th :umm2:

The only petition worth signing:

https://www.change.org/p/boris-johns...ns-in-brussels

The Germans are quite clear


No special deals for the UK, NO pick and choose - its all in in or all out.

Said it today on Daily Politics

God no, keep the hypocritical bobblehead away from it all. He's done enough damage.

No, nope and never... in that order.

nope Im talking about ftse which is almost back where it started

lol they have to play hardball , its all negotiation. in the end its all down to merkel. she is no fool, she knows if she doesnt bend at all germany loses tens of billions , maybe 100s....and the right will rise again. she has to compromise eventually or EU will fall

lol were the 5th biggest economy in the world....our gdp per head is higher than france or germany....yes monaco is a higher gdp but theyre just an island of playboys

True

up to 3.97 million now

The only thing worse than Brexit would be to instantly flip flop on it. We've got no real choice but to reap what we've sown at this point.

You can keep it

Next time the UK has the referendum the choices ought to be...

1. I want Britain to remain a member of the European Union
2. I need more time (and another referendum) to be educated on how foolish it would be to leave the EU

I second that. NO ONE on here or anywhere else is going to tell me that I was ignorant of the issues. I KNOW the issues only too well, like I know that those crying 'foul' are being seduced by ALL the propaganda from those in power and secret power who are desperate to FORCE the weak and spineless in this country to abandon Democracy and hold another referendum.

The stock market crash, the fall of Sterling, the sudden rise in reporting of racist incidents - which have ALWAYS existed but just not been reported in such a CONCERTED manner, the the fall in house prices.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

We HAD to get out of a deep trench which was collapsing on us, and once we went over the top, we KNEW that 'bullets and shells would be fired at us, well those rounds are BLANKS, so stop waving the white flag.

The stock market WILL recover - AFTER all the elite and powerful and wealthy have made BILLIONS from buying up those low shares and watching them recover before selling.

Ditto Sterling.

Ditto the 'property crash'.

THEY not only PERSONALLY win financially, they also win in their WELL PLANNED objective to bamboozle any spineless and witless who voted to 'LEAVE', to regret it, and to force ay spineless and witless who voted to 'REMAIN', to become more militant, so that COMBINED, both camps can TEST our resolve, and our Government's resolve, to abandon DEMOCRACY and surrender.

NOT ON MY WATCH.

Here - everybody calm their nerves by looking forward to the production of my new blockbuster - 'THE GOODFATHER':


THE GOODFATHER TURNS TO LEATHERTRUMPET, HIS CONSIGLIERE, WHO HAS BEEN SILENTLY OBSERVING.

The man's got a point.

4.1 million now

Don't forget number 3.

3: If the result does not go my way we keep on having a vote until it does.

Really the truth, has it got that high,it was adjusted a few days ago by just over 100,000 after investigation I understand,
Has it now again actually risen to that level now.
That is quite a figure.

yep 4.1 million, not sure how corrupt this is , shame really. if it had been 100% legitimate and unspolit a number like this could have created some waves

Numbers have of Frauds in them / Outside the UK


Not valid

Yes democracy at it's best.... yes lets keep voting until the result comes in to remain. Then shut up shop to stop the leavers wanting a re vote to vote leave again.

They have dealt with that arista and removed names from it already I understand.
This that is left, is now the legitimate figure,I never signed it, no way do I want another referendum after the insulting last vile one.

I hadn't realised it was to the 4 million mark however.

If however it was still getting fraudulent names on it, it would be removed, not allowed to continue.