As someone who is constantly telling me that I'm wrong to "always believe that I'm right" - I'm confused as to why you would think that the fact that "you don't see it" means it definitely isn't there. Do you accept that it might be there and you simply aren't aware of it, or are overlooking it?

I 100% agree with Ammi (particularly the first post). Welcome to 2017.

Our institutions are being stretched to their limits as far as freedom of speech and democracy is concerned and more and more pressure are being put on them to do more than they are able. The same thing happening to our institutions is what has happened to TiBB.

Democracy itself in particular is being tested by the introduction of the internet. It used to take months if not years to create movements. Now they are created in minutes. Fires can be created through social media and sites like these just as fast as they are being snuffed out. No question, our very definition of culture and what we call "society" is being tested.

There's not much the mods can to "regulate" this... especially if our own governments can't even control the spread. Media outlets (left or right) try to "suppress" these ideas or movements they see as a threat to their perceived vision of our culture and all it does is create more fires to be put out.

Simply put, if the mods increase moderation, it will only create more fires that can be fanned. The definition of hate speech is still considered blurred in our society, partly due to varying sensitivity levels, partly ignorance. Either way until there's a stricter consensus (personally I think we're seeing a cultural death), then the mods will find that half the community disagrees with almost all their decisions on these case(s).

Your solution is either ignore their acct/comments or to let them live with their reality. The fact that people will sit there though for hours and hours and argue with them their way of things is what fuels their resolve. Maybe go on a politics diet (lol) and give yourself maybe one of those really toxic excursions into a dark thread once a week or something if you're really just craving the intellectual stimulation... (I tried that though, but just quit entirely :laugh:)

For me, the point of posting lost it's decomping purpose after our election(s). It's bad enough we have to endure this presidency at home, that I have to read it on TiBB and everywhere else. Everything in the US right now is "Trump intolerance Trump hate Trump liars Trump fake news Trump Trump Trump". I read and listen (dropped cable TV) the news everyday and I've been having smaller epiphanies here and there about what some of this means not only for our local community but for the country/world. I would have not gained those new understandings, nor spent by my time well, by sitting behind a computer screen arguing with someone I don't even know enough about to judge entirely objectively.

Anyway I used to post at TiBB to decomp, share some posts, make fun of housemates, talk about the mundane... but off-season, it's mainly SD traffic and that tension did start to trickle to other boards. There's few places online now I can genuinely say are not suffering from the same exact problems though political discussion seems to have spilled into every facet of life.

For now, internet trolls from all corners (including our "President") have hijacked our culture and we won't be able to take back control until we ourselves change and understand how we collectively and individually are fanning the flames. (Hint: Less gaslighting)

You are right in what you're saying, and Sheriffs suggestion does seem pretty rational
my fear though is that because of the year weve had - theres quite an obvious 'left'/'right' divide on the forum, and will people report those that they basically consider to be part of their group? or turn a blind eye to it?
The divide is obvious even on this thread, with the 'left' applauding your words, and the 'right' suggesting that theyre confused and not seen what youve speak of.
In all honesty, (and this wont go down well) the only solution I see is more points per infraction.
But maybe the switchup of teams when people devote their life to BB will naturally give people a better perspective of where the line should be. The year-long political mess that the country has seen is finally coming to an end.. and people wont be divided into 'this group' or 'that group' anymore, they'd be divided into like 18 different groups of stanners.

I agree with all of that tbh, I'm just pretty frustrated that a forum that used to be genuinely enjoyable has been caught up in that wave and wrecked to the point of being almost unusable. I'm not ignorant to my own role either. Though, like you say, it's everywhere anyway and somewhat inevitable... and the correct response is probably to just let it go.

Annie and Maru forever being the voices of reason :love:

I dunno, the last few seasons I've noticed that the fan groups are almost totally identical to the SD teams :umm2:. We're doomed.

Hah really. I never cottoned on to that, but I suppose there might be a subconscious appeal to those you relate to most, so that makes sense.

Then again, TS... Stephen Bear, and Charlotte Crosby? One of us isn't a real leftie.

....Maru..:lovedup:.. your posts always have so much thought in seeing so much from different perspectives....



...I do sometimes wonder Withano, do people/posters even see each other anymore because what has stood out in the threads I have read is that people are just 'put into boxes' based on their politics...we are all living in a world of fear and totally united in that/as one with that...but we have different thoughts of what we think will bring the changes needed...pointing fingers at each other just makes for circles of pointless discussions/..(I know you've taught so it's like those awful situations when you can get into real negative times with a child and then neither of you are really listening to each other anymore because you need to find a point you can both begin on to achieve something positive..?..)...(probably an awful analogy but oh well..)...

..anyways I fairly much agree with Sheriff..if any specific single posts are thought to 'cross the line' and are found to be disturbing in some way then report them, there is no need to point fingers...it's just a pointless thing to do and just contributes equally as negatively to the whole thing...and of course, it's exactly what terrorism strives for/to divide us and try to envelope us in the 'hate' thrive on....

I have to admit that I'm guilty of assuming what the content of a post will be from the username. But is it not true that it's very surprising when that assumption is wrong? Not that I'm claiming to be unpredictable either. I guess the problem on a small forum is that we're all so entrenched that we genuinely DO know everyone's responses to everything, because we've already discussed everything to absolute death, or at least, we've already discussed to death the 4 or 5 topics that make up 99% of threads. Occasionally something different and interesting turns up. Maybe we need a new subforum; "Serious debates minus domestic politics, immigration and terrorism".

I'm feeling this a lot lately with my own posts. Had several pages of a thread the other day where people were assuming I'd said all kinds of unrelated things apart from what I actually said. And you think to yourself are people actually reading the words or is there some sort of weird forum translator I'm not party to that changes the words you typed but don't show you the changes.

I also find people will lump you in with the politics they think you share. Personally I have equal disillusion with both sides of the main parties and various of the other small groups but because I will speak up when things seem unjustified or unbalanced to me, and I'm pro Brexit, people think I'm on the right, although I could argue that a true socialist should be Brexit all the way. It seems to me that most people in politics are an insincere bunch of crooks. It's funny though if I say something nice or fair about May or the government I'm considered a raging Tory yet everyone totally missed my saying Corbyn came over well on the One Show the other day. :shrug: The forum gets more and more like the twilight zone every time I look in.

Ah I did put the 'left'/'right' analogy in inverted commas cos it was just used to fill in for my lack of a better phrase. I had no idea how you voted in the referundum, and I had no idea how you intended on voting in the election. I cant imagine many people identify as 'left' or 'right' on tibb, i was just making a point of it seeming like this side and the other side.

I know what you mean, Ammi. People quoting posts, and the response being 'this has nothing to do with my post' is becoming increasingly common, and maybe thats because people have predetermined the context. Ive been on both sides of that, I think a lot of people have.
I do think Big Brother might settle this a little, because the divide would be less obvious. 'Rights' and 'lefts' will unite in their opinions on some of the housemates, some of the time.
And then, after BB and CBB, I cant see any other political milestone causing huge upset to either side until the next US elections. :fc:

If we were sitting watchng all this on bb we would be pointing and laughing.

At whom, prithee?

Your posts suggest to me that you think very much like i do.Except instead of a raging Tory i'm lumped into the 'fence sitter' camp:laugh:
That may actually be true however as i have slagged Corbyn and Abbott off no end but am voting Labour:laugh:
Tbh i am genuinely confused with left/right/centre.I'm not on either side.Strongly anti lefty liberal but agree with nationalisation but even more strongly anti Tory.

It's fecking confusing.I'm genuinely lost.

Meh. I'm lumped in as a Corbynite when I've never voted labour in my entire life, and as a Sturgeon stan when I'm actually against a huge chunk of SNP policy but recognise that - regardless of independence - keeping the SNP in power is the only way to stop the Conservatives shafting Scotland even harder than Thatcher did, when Scottish towns are still littered with the aftershocks of Thatcherism.

The world is showing cracks and it's reflected in here and some political forums I sometimes read.The differing opinions and points raised aren't much different wherever you go and from what i've seen this place seems tame compared to some.

No...us the forum, acting like know alls arguing all the time.

Thilly thauthages, the bunch of us :hehe:

I dislike the presumption those who find the sometimes OTT right wing voices distasteful just haven't considered where they are coming from :/

When you consider the left portion of the forum are lumped as the 'PC brigade' it's a bit rich to suggest that imo.

As said some DO cross the line, it's felt that on here as well as nationally that is becoming increasingly acceptable.
As a left wing voice of the forum I make no apologies for speaking as I find regarding the tone of certain threads by certain members.

Let me get this right - so some can speak as they find on some subjects - but only if approved by you. :shrug:

Hey you can say what you like, if it highlights your prejudice and I comment on that you can own it or don't, that's your issue.

As long as it works both ways - in my experience it rarely does.

That's fine ... I didn't expect you to attempt to see things from MY perspective. I am the PC.

All this drama because some only support 'free speech' when it agrees with them. Then be sure to make it as combatant as you can with a fistful of ********** in every paragraph. Way to go!

No, there is no "sense" to be had. Those comments are coming from a place of bigotry and hatred.

I use another forum group where the left have their own group and discuss left wing politics and the right have their own group and discuss right wing politics. Sometimes the left will wander into the right wing group and visa versa and that's when things get heated but when it all gets too much, they can return to their own group and get their sense of belonging back.

This is a very small forum group and so its probably not possible and anyway, I think a lot of people only come here because they enjoy an argument. I often think, this place isn't a healthy or life realistic environment. People do say things online that they would only say in a hushed voice with a like minded person, if they were out in say, Costa coffee. I mean, if I heard someone on the tube speaking like some of the people on here sometimes speak, I'd be nailing their bottom lip to the floor and I'm not even a violent person.

I'm not really sure why I come here. I mean, I've tried to leave once or twice but I always end up coming back. Perhaps I thrive on the frustration hehe!

Could you take TS to this forum so he can mingle with like minded people I fear he will do himself a mischief on here

I keep asking myself this and the only concrete reasons I've been able to come up with are "boredom" and "habit" :umm2:.

Isn't DM always saying how tame it is in here and how other forums let her speak her mind, yet she is always threatening people with ignore so we can't be that tame..I'm confused :hee:

That forum sounds like fun.Kind of small skirmish attacks into the opposite camp instead of all out war.What do the centrists do though?

They have to make do with sitting in the lobby?

No such thing as centrists, they're just spies that feed information to their real side about all the dumb stuff the other side are saying.

They sit on the fence that divides the two sides

Tbf Donald Trump didn't even get the most votes from the American people, it was the small rural States that swung him a narrow win.

Big Brother I tend to find normally can have me support people that I would be horrified at in real life alot of the time with their views.:joker:

I mean I supported Helen Wood in BB15.:laugh:

I support people to say prejudice things if they want to, but they should also expect that alot of people will also voice their own opinions against those views.

True, I don't support BB housemates because I like them as people at all, but because I like the impact they have on the house or the interesting things they bring out in others. Bear is the prime example, really. I couldn't be around the guy for long in real life, but the things he brought out in the other housemates... that's what made him absolute gold. Same with Kim Woodburn etc. - the best part about her as a housemate was watching the others implode trying to deal with her.

It's those ones who paint on a facade of being "the good guys" that I find really awful and watching that shell crack and all of that self-important ego and nastiness start to spill out that is the best part of BB. So anyone who can make that happen gets my support :hee:.

Not at all free speech and hate speech are VERY different things. Katie Hopkins for instance crossed that line with her comment that saw her sacked from her very influential position.
I admire free speech and encourage it, that was not it.
All that has been suggested is some posts can skirt a little to close to that line than is comfortable, and with increasing frequency.

There just seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding that "free speech" means "saying literally whatever you want, whenever you want".

That's not what it means and it never has been :think:.