When?:laugh:

Explain the "zombie storyline"?

The apocalypse tends to be the backdrop in which they tell these heightened plots.

Not to mention any show that wants to run for more than one episode is going to need subplots and character development beyond simply sticking to the "main plot" whatever that may be.

"Relationships" are the most important part they drive the story and create the conflict fgs. If there was no relationships there'd be no "actual story".

Really you're listing stories and characters you didn't enjoy or don't like. That doesn't make them unimportant or irrelevant to the story being told.

Throughout its run.

The Show is 8 seasons in and they haven't thought to explain who even caused the Zombie outbreak? If it was a good Zombie story that should've been explained by now.

And I never said that dynamics in a show is unimportant, in fact I quit an Anime called Last Exile recently because it lacked interesting character dynamics, but a show should be able to have both, and TWD did do poor with Lori on the character development front as she was just the love interest of Rick and Shane, she never got to be her own person and form dynamics with the rest of the survivors, that's poor writing and as I stress for the leading lady at the time is just simply not good enough.

But it's not about what started it. That's not the purpose of the show.

It wouldn't have lasted this long if it was either.

In fact the creator even said the cause is "not important to the story".

I don't think I could list 10 tbh but I want to give a special shout out to Janae "Watson" from OITNB... like what does she do? Just runs? Release ha

It's about Survival first and foremost I know, and trust would be another thing, but of course what started it is more important than any character's love life on the show, or any dynamic on the show tbh as otherwise the Zombie Outbreak story has no aim and is just the same thing on repeat of people moving from one place to the next just surviving and no real aim of wanting to live a normal life again, because if the show actually had the characters wanting to find out what caused the Zombies to exist (actual Human curiosity that the show doesn't touch on) then they could try and find a cure and stop the Zombie outbreak once and for all.

Obviously the show instead seems to think that people would be all about wanting to beat each other up, or having sex with each other rather than wanting to actually try and save everybody by trying to find a cure so that they can then rebuild their lives.

BIB, so they're admitting then that they just used the Zombies as a gimmick then to pull in viewers that wouldn't otherwise have watched the show? That's good to know then that The Walking Dead has got such an appropriate title.

You don't get the show at all if you think the origin of the zombie apocalypse is more important than the characters and their relationships to one another.

To quote the creator "it's not important to the story".

The zombie apocalypse is the setting, the playground for the stories.

In fact, how many times has the "omg virus we need to find a cure" been done? Cliche is an understatement.

"Otherwise it's just about people moving around surviving"
Well done, you've almost hit on what the show is about. [emoji23]

That's like saying Eastenders is nothing but a gimmick because they haven't explained the origins of Albert Square.

They don't need to. It's the setting, the fictional universe within which the stories play out.

Cliche or not it's a Zombie story so it has to follow certain things just like any other story has to, in fact the only people that would accept Lori as being in any shape or form as being relevant to the show are more than likely not normally fans of the genre.

And as I've said the creator has basically used the Zombies as a gimmick to try and get people to tune into the show, because let's face it what is the point of the Zombies in the show then if the most important stuff in the show is relationships and friendships? If the writer wanted to make that type of show then don't put Zombies in the programme, otherwise characters like Lori are a waste of time as they don't fit into the certain tropes that comes with the genre and is a necessity for the genre to follow.

Basically if it's a Zombie show then the dynamics take a back burner to trying to find out what caused the outbreak, and if it's a Drama/Soap Opera then the writer should've made an entirely different show instead of pretending that it was a Zombie show.

Plus shows that follow their friendships/relationships is possibly more cliched at this point than a Zombie outbreak.

EastEnders isn't claiming to have mysteries surrounding Albert Square though, it is what it is which is a Soap Opera where relationships, friendships, and rivalries occur, and affairs/other types of scandals, I'm no fan of the show but it is following it's genre to a tea.

However EastEnders would be doing a bad job if Zombies started turning up and the characters had to try and stop them (which whether the you like it or not) that is what TWD is about as realistically the show can't honestly believe that these people are gonna survive for much longer if they honestly don't put a stop to the Zombies? And also as I said the show is very one note if all it is about is moving from one place to the next, that isn't even a plot it's just changing location for more of the same Lori-esque stuff that doesn't fit in with what the audience was promised in season 1, or with any other Zombie story that's ever been made which it does have to follow those tropes to an extent.

I think that this review off IMDB summons up alot of the issues with TWD.

"They've lost me, the producers have lost me. How many times can they recycle the same plot? This is no longer humanity vs zombies, this is humans vs humans with a unnecessary dose of violence and twisted psyche, all for the sake of maintaining ratings and milking the cash cow. The writers creativity have been depleted for a few seasons now, there has been no direction, no gradual learning, no story development. All the physical moving around is just the illusion of story to mask the fact that there isn't a story being told at all. The show isn't going anywhere. I have stopped watching, and I feel liberated from this burden of a show. TWD has slowly decomposed into a gross, unintelligent TV show. Who keeps making gas, electricity... but then there's no radio communication... What happened to the military, the government, smart people, common sense... I understand the appeal for certain demographics, but I, for once, demand more from entertainment than this garbage, good bye!!!"

There's nothing wrong with being slow paced, but there does still need to be a story going on that the fans will accept being in the programme.

And they make a good point about how the Military, The Government, and the Scientists have all disappeared and has been substituted for pointless violence, and characters relationships.

What? You mean, except when it does have mysteries?

That's not the point Mock. We're talking about these shows/stories having a setting/background. That background is largely irrelevant and just the stage for the characters and stories.

"Realistically" this small group of people are not going to discover the cause and find a cure neither.

The show is about a group of survivors struggling to cope in a zombie apocalypse. The show has never changed from this premise.

No, it doesn't have to follow tropes from other zombie stories. What a ridiculous comment. There's no point in it existing, if it has to do everything that's already been done because Mock wants it to.

You're talking as though they're moving location for the sake of it... uh, hello... zombies.

Wanting Daryl or whoever else to suddenly develop the skills to produce a zombie cure is laughable. :joker: It's not what the show is about.

It has to follow them or there's no story beyond a 90 minute movie. You might as well just have one character on their own in that case.

Oh the old "if you don't agree with me you're not a real fan" argument. I've been a fan of the zombie genre for years and I think the idea of Lori being irrelevant is ridiculous. I don't watch it but I think Z Nation sounds more like what you're looking for.

Individual characters will have mysteries (like most shows do tbf) but none of it is about Albert Square itself on any episode that I've ever seen of the show.

I think the biggest thing that the show should be having happen is for groups to be bumping into Scientists, Military Officers, and just characters wanting to put a stop to the madness rather than all of them wanting to kill each other.

I mean these posts make it sound like I hate the show (I honestly don't) I just do feel that the show has written itself in a way where either the Zombies are pointless in the show, or the Lori type characters are pointless in the show as Zombie stories and Soap Opera stories don't naturally mesh with one another as the stories are nothing alike.

I have actually heard that Z Nation is meant to be more entertaining tbf.:joker:

And let's be honest Lostie how many Zombie stories have had Lori type of characters? And I want an honest answer here and not some sarcastic post that seems to be going on at the moment on this thread with digs at Z Nation which from what I'm gathering has always promised to be more like a Parody rather than a Drama.

Davos though, ''this is jon snow................. he's king in the north''

so funny :laugh: :laugh:

I'm sorry if I've upset any fans of TWD, but I'm just stating issues that I think alot of people have had with the show that I think has lost the show alot of ratings.

Tbf I don't think that Lori is the only pointless character the show has ever had, I mean if it weren't for the fact that he is playing the villain role, Negan would be completely out of place in a show like TWD.

Out of interest as fans of the show Marsh and Lostie, what do you both think has caused the show to lose so many viewers in such a short space of time if you don't think that my issues are the reason for the negative response towards the show?

what, don't say bad things about someone with a deadly baseball bat, that's a ballsy but dumb decision to do :joker:

tbf though the show was extremely popular when Lori was in it and was one of the main driving forces of the storyline :laugh:

I do like Davos as a character, but that actor was actually one of the redeeming factors about Outcasts imo.

If you don't know what the show is Nicky, it was a British show that aired on the BBC that did only one season, the genres were Sci-Fi, and Drama, I've told you just in case you like the sound of it.

Ratings shot up as soon as she was killed though.:laugh:

I honestly think that the show's creators, the channel with it's trailers, the Comic Book fans, and the normal TV Show fans all have their own ideas of what the show is supposed to be, and I can't help but feel that's what hurting the show's quality as the creators/the channel want the Drama/Soapy bits. The TV Show fans on average seem to love the action meets Drama/Soap elements. The Comic Books fans seem to want it to be more gory and more Drama driven, with also more focus on the Zombies and better writing for Rick (the Rick stuff really is true with the Comic fans when I've heard them speak) so I think the show then is looking like a mess because they're having to incorporate all of these different things into the show and they don't all naturally gel with each other, and the show seems to be half hazard at pulling certain things off.

Personally aswell I do feel that they need to stop turning alot of the female characters into Stepford Wives, they're never gonna be able to carry an episode in this type of show if that's all their role is suppose to be.

Ratings went up because people liked Seasons 1 & 2, people didn't just say oh hate Lori so I'm going to stop watching until she dies :laugh:

I've just checked on Wikipedia and the ratings didn't go up quite as big as I thought it did after she died, I do know that Shane's death saw the show jump up 2 million viewers afterwards.

I personally do think that alot of people was fed up of how the show doesn't seem to have a structured storyline, and I do think that characters like Lori, Negan, Sasha, and controversially Daryl do not help matters when they're either not heavily involved in the plot (Daryl, Sasha, and Lori) or they just don't seem to have enough dynamics with the cast to sustain themselves (Sasha in particular fell into this trap quite brutally imo, as did Lori who just was only there for Rick and Shane) I'm not saying that I'm speaking for everyone, but these were noticeable mistakes to me, and I bet in particular with the Lori and Negan storylines that alot of people just didn't check the show out past season 1 because of Lori, or quit the show in season 7 because of Negan. I also personally think that the Alexandria stuff was quite pointless too as there was no proper threat in Alexandria and the show had to force danger onto the group I felt.

As I've said though I'm interested to read what alot of the fans think is the issue as to why TWD has lost around 8 million viewers in the last two seasons.

I wasn't making a "dig" at Z Nation, I was saying (without a shred of sarcasm) that it sounds more like the type of zombie show that you want.

I'm not sure how "other zombie stories don't have Lori types" makes her irrelevant to The Walking Dead. That literally makes no logical sense. The Walking Dead has always been about more than just zombies, that's just the backdrop against which the stories take place and it sounds like that's your problem. Well it never "promised" anything else because the focus on character drama (including the Lori story) are from the source material. Lori's importance to the show is a matter of fact, what's subjective is whether you like her or not.

Fair enough then I must have caught the wrong end of the stick with your post then, I apologise.

I just think that when you call yourself The Walking Dead, your whole pilot is about surviving against the Zombie outbreak, and the trailers are all about Rick and his group fighting Zombies, it is kind of expected then that the Lori type characters shouldn't really be getting so much screentime as they conveniently leave those types of characters off the trailers.

Btw I'm not even saying that The Walking Dead shouldn't have Drama, it's the Soap Opera elements that are not needed for a show like this which is all Lori gave, I mean think about it did Lori have much screentime with anybody but Rick or Shane?

Ratings went up because people started watching as the show started getting popular so everyone who according to ratings only started watching in Seasons 3 or 4 obviously would have watched the first two online or somewhere first, like I did.

I really disagree with everything you say about Lori and her storyline (as much as I disliked her) She didn't just have a dynamic with Rick and Shane btw, there's a dislike between her and Andrea and also her relationship with Carl. But look it sounds to me as if you're just disappointed that the show doesn't focus on what you want it to focus on and that your needs aren't being met, that doesn't make a character pointless in general, just to you :laugh:

What if the scientists and military officers are all dead? Maybe the bleak reality of the story is that by the end the entire population/world will die?

:clap1:

To be fair, it makes literally zero sense that a small town sheriff and his rag-tag group of plucky normal people have survived this long, and The Kingdom with a zookeeper leader and again normal followers... And Negan and Co... And the trash yard kids... Have all survived and become expert zombie killers...

... And yet they haven't encountered ONE military group? Who would all be trained in survival tactics and armed to the teeth from the start. Or, say, a SWAT unit and their families for similar reasons. Basically, if multiple groups of mostly UNtrained people have survived, how are there no organised groups of trained individuals. Hmmm.

Because the outbreak started at a military base and they are to blame, they were turned first.

SOLVED. Bravo TS! Bravo! :clap1:

BIB, again I hardly saw her interact with Carl, in those first two seasons I saw Carl mainly hanging around Rick and Shane, Lori was hardly developed with Carl in my view which always looked strange to me considering she was supposed to have been his Mother.

And the Andrea scene (which is all it was if I remember correctly) was in season 2 which I said I do think tried a bit harder to make her relevant in the dynamics, but the show just never seemed to have the confidence to let her be her own character for the whole hog.

But as you've said to me about the plot, if that is the ending then the show could easily end within 3 to 5 seasons, not planning on doing 12 seasons like the writers have promised.

Thank you! Someone else seeing it from my perspective of the show, if anything like that was to really happen in real life Government officials, and Military would be some of the people that I'd be most confident was still alive.

Why? There's all of the story they have had involving the characters over the years.

Could end in 3 to 5 seasons if they only include things you are interested in.

What you enjoy and don't enjoy doesn't equate to what is and isn't relevant to the stories they are telling.

And I doubt that will be the "ending" as the show isn't about them. It'll be about whatever ending is in store for the characters we're actually watching on-screen.

What story do you think that they're "telling" though? Alot of the characters are either dead or just hanging on through sheer fan popularity at this point (Daryl and Michonne) the only "story" that seems to be mentioned on here is them moving from point A to B which isn't even really a story in itself if it's basically still just Negan hunts them down from another location with his Biker Gang type mentality, you could basically just keep him and Simon still going for them in Alexandria and it still wouldn't make a difference.

Being fair the current story doesn't exclude the possibility that government officials are still alive as they'd probably be living in a bunker somewhere, or perhaps a very remote base in the middle of a desert or something, for several years after the initial outbreak.

Its more the small groups of soldiers etc. I'm wondering about - we've hardly seen any alive! There was the tank driver from The Governors town I suppose, and Abraham but I'm sure he was an ex-soldier or at least on leave when it all started.

Surely there would be groups of soldiers who were together in barracks when it all started... And you get those military villages where soldiers live with their families etc... Wouldn't communities like that be some of the most likely to survive for a while? Rather than "normal" little settlements like Hilltop or Kingdom. I mean they did explain Alexandria which survived until Rick's arrival on a combination of self sufficiency and isolationism, the strong walls, and some good luck. But not so much the others.

That said, they've still not explained the helicopter that Rick saw overhead in the first half of this season. I don't think it was The Saviours, been no indication that they have one, so maybe there IS a well equipped base around somewhere.