If so I’m in the right place as the forum is full of them. Takes on to know one.

People with autism of which asbergers is a condition are different, and there are wildly varying levels of different from not being able to communicate at all to very intelligent communicative skills. They can be cherubs or quite physically violent. However some things are a bit of a trend of the condition, they see the world differently, can be socially and emotionally awkward and don't have the same filters as other people. I spent a few years working with autistic children and what Anne said was pretty typical asbergers in my view. Just a blunt statement of the obvious.

It isn't transphobic to state the obvious and anyone offended by that really needs to grow a thicker skin.

I agree she probably wasn't meaning to be transphobic, when I first watched it I didn't know she has aspergers so I thought she was just being cruel, but watching it knowing I doubt that was the case. But regarding the bit in bold I think it's also understandable that trans people might be offended. They can't control their gender dysphoria much like Anne can't control her aspergers and comments like that would most likely trigger it so I don't think it's really a case of them just needing a thicker skin to be fair.

I think it has a lot to do with growing a thicker skin tbh. Just like you say they can't control their condition, they also cannot control others perceptions of them which stands just as much for someone on the autism spectrum as for someone who wants to be a different sex. Other people will not understand, will find it weird, in both cases and unless they accept that they will find a great deal of unhappiness. You cannot force people to see you how you want to be seen so you have to accept that is life and get on with it without butthurt drams every time someone says something unpleasant to you.

I have a friend who has a weight problem and she has been the victim of nasty remarks in public many times. A lot nastier than someone noting you used to be a boy. She can't control other people either. So she's had to grow a thicker skin too.

We don't get to decide what should or shouldn't affect another person. I've never been able to work out what a "thicker skin" even means! Does it mean we can't be offended or hurt anymore? That our world will turn to a much happier place because we won't be exposed or put on the spot? Does it mean we are not allowed to care? Is being sensitive the opposite of being strong?

I don't understand why this is news. (Not panning you Nom, just why these always circulate in the media) The comment was obviously meant to be cutting... but I don't see why then magnify it beyond the level of what it actually warrants? I don't think society is that fragile? Whether she meant it in truth or out of medical, would feel irrelevant to me and somewhat inappropriate to the target of the comment... because it wouldn't invalidate the problematic nature of that commentary and obviously her hurt feelings if any existed...

She didn't respond, so apparently she didn't think it worth that much to make a big scene over it... I think more power to her for rising above it. But why the media needs to amplify every small case of stupiditis, I will never get... it feels like we're rewarding it by putting a bright yellow sticker next to it and giving it a national platform. Must have been a boring episode if this was the only thing worth commenting on...

"Because it sells". The answer to why the media does anything.

"Outrage and indignation" is big business.

I don't doubt they'd be a lot happier if they didn't suffer from it but I'm just saying that having a mental disorder like gender dysphoria isn't their fault and if it is triggered I don't think they can really be blamed for that .We don't tell people with depression to 'just cheer up' much in the same way as a person can't really be told not to feel dysphoric, it sets it apart from everyday comments/criticisms we all get that might offend us for whatever reason where toughening up could be beneficial. Or like your friend for example with the weight problems, I don't know if she suffers from an eating disorder but people who do would be far less able to cope well with comments about their weight because that inability to cope is directly linked to a mental disorder, compared to somebody who has weight problems but no associated mental condition.

Its fine for an individual to be offended by someone or something, and everyone's threshold for taking offence is different, so no problem there. The problem I have is with people taking offence on others behalf when its just not necessary. If i was down the pub or at the cinema and I got offended about something, i wouldn't go round everyone there asking for their support and for them to be offended too. It makes no sense. So why does it become acceptable online or in the media? It's just plain daft.

Oh yes and the fast food and carbonated beverage industry are big business... all terrible things for our well-being, but very addicting. :laugh: We don't know even notice what we are doing it to ourselves...

I wouldn't say transphobic as there was nothing "phobic" against trans.
While it wasn't the best of statements from Anne (and I don't know much about her) - She did use to be a boy (not an opinion), for the sake of the argument she was "on the other side" like women might base their argument on being on the discriminated side.
Was it necessary or meant to support a serious debate about these things? there wasn't much of a thought behind it. People say stuff...
If it's a discussion about gender issues - Anne brings the fact of being herself a woman, like Paris bringing the fact that she's a transwoman to the table (and it's something that India has discussed on CBB21 - changing sides from the "oppressive" gender to the "oppressed" gender, which is a valid point).

It comes to something doesn't it when women are immediately oppressive as soon as a man says 'I'm a woman now'... no, you're not.

I dont think she said anything wrong :conf:

I think this person of trans origin should stop being such a snowflake and grow some balls.Take it on the chin.
I don’t think old Frosty Drawers meant any harm.

:hehe:

Bwaahaaaa I spit my coffee!

You know... I'm not going to say that it isn't a topic that needs to be up for debate - but I have to say, it sort of seems like trans people are becoming the "accepted targets of vitriol", and I've noticed it especially on here.

Is that not worrying to anyone else? :think: Several of the posts on this thread would not be accepted if they were directed at any other group and - let's call a spade a spade here - that's almost entirely down the the moderator's personal opinions and prejudices. Sort it out, guys. Some sort of consistency.

You're braver than me for saying this but I have to agree with you. Some of the things that have been said about trans people on here recently are quite depressing.

A moderator's role though is not really to play thought police, which is what we are getting into when we are starting to hand select what is "unacceptable" conversation versus what isn't. It should only be to manage discussions so that they topics don't fall entirely apart and to moderate for obvious baiting and incendiary behavior. SD is a boiler room, and I think that that will never change. The goal should be to moderate as little as possible. (anything else is "curation"). And sometimes less is done of what is needed because of the thin line between censorship and guiding discussion... otherwise it'll turn into a cliquey turf war.

I'm still for creating a relationships/LGBT/humanities section, as I think this forum really needs it. It will help alleviate the pressure I think. In which case, I nominate Jamie89 for President of said section.

I agree with the first paragraph, I'm not sure if its the mods' personal prejudices though - its just a lack of consistency.

Its like theres some sort of heirachy. You can be a little bit transphobic or islamophobic, just no sexism or homophobia.. racism is somewhere in the middle. Idgi either.

It's all this "Branding" that gets on my tits.:fist:
Everything has to be have a label, be a this or a that.

Grow up.

Absolutely.

The Wright Stuff is horrible in that sense. Like last week when they were goading Iain Lee about his personal life after he specifically asked them beforehand he wasn't there to talk about it. The media can be a vile cesspit.

When you do. :shrug:

She didn't say it as though to say "You used to be a boy, you weren't always on the oppressed gender" she said it as though as a boy she would know all about the "boy's club" (ie. the patriarchy) as though every male is the enemy. :laugh:

What... Where

Where are they the accepted targets of vitriol on here?
Exactly what would be so unacceptable, if you take issue with a comment quote it then it might highlight any discrepancy that's been overlooked by every moderator and the rest of the forum.

not necessarily transphobic, just an ill-timed comment and i certainly don’t think she meant any malice by it.

as previously said, anne has aspergers syndrome. so she sometimes doesn’t think before speaking. transphobic is not the right word here.

There's one Kizzy. That was easy enough.

Maru: that's why I said A) that I am perfectly willing to agree that it's open for reasonable, considered debate and also B) that my main concern is consistency.

There isn't just a sharing of beliefs when it comes to this topic... There's some quite clear anger, and mocking, when it comes to "blokes pretending to be women" that simply isn't accepted when it comes to other topics and the main reason it's accepted is because Vicky, and to a lesser extent Niamh, the most active SD mods, have (fairly recently) been expressing open cynicism and anger towards the very concept of transsexualism. Frankly, Vicky is more or less the worst for the "blokes in frocks prancing about pretending to be real women!!" type comments.

And like I said, it wouldn't be accepted against other groups. My problem is the double standards.

So childish.

What a surprise... If you have an issue in the future just quote me don't be making out the whole forum has some kind of prejudice because you have taken exception to one comment.

There isn't anger from me, I have said many times personally I don't believe blokes can be women...female yes, women no.

I don't know how you can equate an opinion on transpeople to that of any other topic such as racism the two are not even nearly comparable.
I'll go further and refer you back to a comment you made on gaming... do you remember that conversation when you suggested I wasn't qualified to have an opinion on games or gaming?.... I'll find it if needs be.

I'm wondering now, if I didn't have the relevant experience to participate in that discussion then what credentials do you have to suggest that my opinion on this topic, that I have a lifetime of experience in to be 'wrong'?

Thinking someone can't hold an educated opinion on something because of a lack of understanding/research on something is different to saying they can't understand something because of their genitalia.

That's the difference between TS' stance that you weren't "qualified" to fully have an opinion on that games debate versus Anne insinuating this other woman couldn't hold an opinion simply because she used to have a penis I would imagine.

And before I get pushed into a corner and threatened with my life, that's just my understanding of the situation. :nono:

Being close to someone who is trans female to male, I know how hurt he (and yes he is a 'he') would be if someone said to him, "you should know, you were once female" especially if that comment was in front of a public audience. Knowing how desperate he was to become a male (though he's not completely re-assigned yet). The hysterectomy, the mastectomy, the hormone regime and the coming out I feel for him every time I hear people mocking transgenders on here.
For him its somewhat easier because as his hips fell away and his beard grew, his voice deepened and his whole persona took on a very muscular appearance. For men who transition its much more difficult. The voice often remains deep, the Adams still protrudes, the facial features often look masculine and the hips don't grow and I think because of all those things they are less accepted. They are still seen as a c**k in a frock and people don't take them seriously.

I hate to hear a trans woman being called a 'he' because that's not what she is. Every time I hear someone saying that I think of the trans guy I know and how he would feel if someone insisted on calling him 'she'. It works both ways.

Well she old and she called Ann

Right now I'm less interested in Annes take on things and more interested why my take on this subject is being labeled 'vitriol' :/

DR I think you're preaching to the converted somewhat here, I would say that 99% of the forum and for certain me personally am very sympathetic to M/F or F/M transitions.

I have to say though that as upsetting as it was the fact was they were once a different gender... and as such will have had experiences that they could draw on for comment in relation to that.
Which to my mind is more or less what happened here, they didn't die and get reborn they transitioned, the memory of socialisation, patriarchy and peer pressure is still all there to relate to isn't it?

Should I transition tomorrow I would still have a wealth of experience as a female to draw upon a a trans man.

I don't think he does.

He's wondering why what he sees as transphobia is routinely accepted on the forum and everything else (sexism, homophobia etc) are, rightly, cracked down on.

She's younger than Ann you silly boy.

Do you know the difference between gender and sex? Because any F/M trans of the same age as you, also going through their transistion tomorrow would not have that same wealth of experience as a woman. They likely never saw themselves as a woman, and likely never lived their life as one. Their gender was never female and yours was - that parallel you tried to draw doesn't exist really.

I think this is the issue personally. People thinking you're only a different person after the operation. Its not the case. It was daft when Hegerty implied it, its still daft now.

So is big ben

Don't be so self-important Kizzy; I quite explicitly stated that Vicky "is the worst for it".