The poll said most people were against a state visit, but this visit is not a full state visit.

THere is a bit OTT and then there is a deluded loud-mouth, know-it-all little S**te which is what he is. He thinks he knows a lot more than he actually does and soon most will be sick of the sight and sound of him.

Sometimes he gets a Show on LBC Live Radio
he is on the Back Up List

Yes its a Fast Working Visit
tricking the protesters
who can not Fly Fast to Scotland like Trump can,
thats one possible route..........................

To be fair, it seems that there's a common misconception in certain circles that having a strong / confident opinion is the same as "being a know it all"... Or, perhaps, that claim is simply used by some people to shut down when others happen to have confident opinions that contradict their own.

We all have confident opinions but some try harder to force those opinions on to others. Jones is one of those pretentious people who think they have the right as he of course knows better than most. Somehow I don’t think the majority would agree with him on that!

but enough about Farage :hee:

This was an interesting video, I have to say I agree with Pie more than Jones

I totally get his frustration to be honest, and that's actually a fairly recent thing for me (the last 18 months or so). There are so many rules and buzzwords and phrases thrown around these days - most of it absolute horse****, and most of it from people who have very little idea what they're actually talking about - that it's all too often impossible to have any sort of real or constructive discussion without it descending into jargon and rhetorical one-upmanship.

I strongly suspect that most people who do it would simply be incapable of holding down a one-on-one discussion without the pocket phrasebook of conversation killers.

There's a growing backlash against random celebs, journalists, musicians, actors, "civil rights" organizations, etc speaking on behalf of all of us. It's still smallish, but it's definitely growing. I think long-term, we will look back and say that mob mentality has been bad for society. This goes beyond just politics. Businesses and everyday people have had their lives destroyed or disrupted in some manner because random groups of people with a common cause have found a target they can domineer, intimidate and otherwise play with their lives... occasionally there's another person in front of that that says the "right" thing in the media and then the mob use that to start petitions, run disinformation campaigns, target small businesses, etc to try to destroy those they perceive as a threat... this links back to our culture... modern day western culture has always been a bit of a busybody, because western culture knows best... much of what is happening currently can be blamed on liberalism and Hollywood, sure, but exceptionalism paved the way to supporting that framework, which made it possible for any of those movements to be cultivated, much less thrive. If that isn't corrected in our culture, it doesn't matter if liberalism in it's current manifestation were to reform... there would be some other domineering influence tomorrow that takes it's place that picks up where it left off...

I can think of many people much more deserving of such an act than Trump, pointless as it is. Maybe we should leave the burning of effigies and the like - together with the implied threats - to the likes of ISIS and their supporters as that kind of moronic act is much more up their street and I see no reason for the West to lower themselves to their level. :rolleyes:

Here,here brillo.:wavey:

Nobody is planning on parading ISIS around our country as an ally, arm in arm with our nations leaders.
I mean, yes ISIS is worse than Trump. You are missing the point though.

I nominate John Venables - but don't bother with any effigy, just burn the real thing.

Or if we are strictly talking 'Political Figures only, how about Dianne Abbott and Jeremy Corbyn?

...so your previous outrage at Jones was? Him nominating the wrong person? Cos actually you and him are sharing the exact same thought process. Some might call that hypocritical idk.

like him or hate him, trump is a democratically elected president. We got annoyed when outside influences got involved in the brexit vote, the only ones that can change things are the american people, and outside protests are just going to strengthen their resolve to keep him

WHY do you persistently MISINTERPRET and MISREPRESENT what I have written?

Is it because - by your own admission - you refuse to READ my posts because of my 'random capitalisation' and therefore are totally CLUELESS about what I have ACTUALLY said?

In any event, I CHALLENGE you to reproduce here ANY example of my 'Previous outrage' at Jones.

Go on, QUOTE me - you have NEVER accepted similar challenges from me before when you have misrepresented what I have said.

Well said BOTS.

She is such a div isn't she Kirk,:laugh:
https://i.imgur.com/2i9HXGL.jpg

Well yes but he's the democratically elected president of The United States, by US citizens, and any protest about him coming to the UK / interacting with the UK is surely a protest against him having any political influence over the UK... Where he is not an elected anything.

I mean I would understand your point if there was a planeload of British folks heading to Washington to stage an anti-Trump demonstration... But that's not what's happening. No one is protesting against the democratically elected Trump doing whatever it is he does in his own country... Only when he boards a plane and brings his rhetoric to nations where he is not president?

He was invited by our government as the US President. What political influence exactly is he trying to impose on the Brits? Do some of the British Public now think they can dictate what high ranking Western politicians the government can invite to the UK!

I think some, like Jones, are getting a bit too big for their boots. He isn’t a mass murderer! People who vocalise what a fool the man is sure act as though they see him as a considerable threat.

:hehe:
Get of your high horse about the West, Brillo. No need to bring ISIS into it.
Burning effigies is an old British tradition. The only innovation I suggested was time and place.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...s-8914042.html

And you support that! I find that total hypocricy of people taking the moral high ground one minute then acting like bullies and dictators the next. Total hypocrites.

Burning effigies is a pretty aggressive, violent and primitive act and hardly appropriate for a gobby tv printer/columnist and sexual pest/rapist of a film producer. As I said there are far worse offenders we could be protesting about, especially in such a infantile way - it smacks of pack-mentality and revenge - the opposite of what such people preach. A good case of do as I say - not what I do!

I've met Owen twice and he was nothing but lovely, approachable and down to earth. Some of the vitriol in this thread is absurd.

What's more is (and I'm really getting tired of having to explain this, I lose brain cells every time I do) protesting cannot be anti-democratic, because the act of protest is quite literally democracy in action. There are no two ways about this. It doesn't matter whether you think the cause is worthy, or stupid, or pointless, people are entitled to protest about whatever they like - regardless of whether or not it will have any effect. And THAT'S democracy.

Brillo, chill. You're getting too worked up in this hot weather.
Burning effigies is a staple of political protests. It will go on whether you like it or not.
I bet Trump's narcissism would be tickled if we told him his effigy would be the biggest and the bestest in the world.

:joker::joker::joker: Though when I recall that it is 30 years that this dangerous, racist buffoon has been in politics and that now she has a top position in the Shadow Cabinet, I'm afraid that the 'jOKE' is firmly upon us Kaz.

Good post brillo,no real need to add anything :wavey: except that burning effigies achieves nothing just proves the childish mindset of some.

Fair points Jack, but I have met Nigel Farage numerous times and have also found him always friendly, ultra-civil and polite, sincere, very intelligent and knowledgeable, and very approachable, but such DIRECT personal experience would not sway any anti-Farage members on here to change their dislike of him.

Also, I agree that PEACEFUL protests ARE a part of 'Democracy In Action' but, experience has shown us - time and time again - that these protests are anything but peaceful, and that is down to the Anti-Democratic factions which are behind these protests, the Political Agitators employed by them to take control of the way in which the protests develop ensuing violence and anarchy, and the mindless unknowing sheep who go along with the protests.

I would also argue that Democracy In Action could also be defined as accepting State Protocol.

Of course it will go on - the kids have to have their hypocritical fun! If it makes them feel better - which I doubt it will. They will still be filled with hate.

Democracy when it suits as the very same people are those desperately trying to overturn a democratic vote by British people to leave the EU. So please don’t preach about democracy whilst one of our oldest acts of democracy - the vote - is being ignored by those who insist on having their way despite the result.

Great point Brillo.

To be fair, I don't know of many people who are just saying "ignore the vote", just that there should be a second vote to confirm that it is indeed what the majority of people still want.

I do understand people's reasons for not wanting "vote after vote" (although, I personally don't think one follow up vote on such a huge undertaking as brexit is unwarranted)... HOWEVER... you can't claim that a second vote is undemocratic. If a follow up vote was to suggest that "the will of the people" has dramatically changed, then accepting that would be entirely democratic... arguably, more democratic than dogmatically accepting the outcome of one snapshot vote.

A second vote is simply an attempt to overturn the original vote - just dressed up to sideline the real intent whilst insulting the intelligence of those that voted. Come on TS you know it, I know it, everyone knows it! Why the heck should a second vote be any more valid than the first! It’s all bull**** and everyone knows it. Surprised at you TS.

The truth is that the Brexit result of the 'Referendum' was a COMPLETE and UTTER surprise to the Tories AND Labour - who BOTH desired for, and expected a huge 'Remain' result.

The Tories paid 'Lip Service' to the Referendum whilst covertly, the powerful Multi-Nationals, Super-Rich, and 'Landed' Classes - ALL who have vested interests in remaining in the EU - poured millions and huge resources into propaganda campaigns full of bollox and lies to brainwash us all into voting Remain.

The Labour Party were and are desperate to remain in the EU - thus the meandering of their leader Corbyn - but at least THEY were more upfront about it.

Since the result, NOTHING has changed, except now - instead of trying to brainwash us into 'staying in' - these lying bastards are using their massive resources and covert connections to instil fear into us all and try to make us doubt that our decision to Brexit was the correct one so that:

a) We will change our vote to 'Remain' if their campaign for a 'Second Referendum' had succeeded.
b) Be more ACCEPTING of ALL the many concessions which May is making to the EU as part of the Brexit 'Deal'.

There is no GENUINE reason for May to procrastinate or offer huge bribes or make other concessions to those crooked bastards in Europe and it is ALL part of the covert strategy to make us believe that we are OUT of the EU when - by the time May has finished with her B.S. concessions - we will be out in name only.

That doesn't really matter though. Like I said - I fully understand why many people think that a second vote is unwarranted and unnecessary. I understand the government's inclination to hold their ground and not hold such a vote.

However, if there WAS a vote, so long as it is an open public vote, and the result is a true reflection of how genuine voters have voted... then there's just no way it can be described as "undemocratic".

For example; there was no reason at all for May to hold a General Election last summer. No one wanted it... it was a total waste of time... and the result ended up doing nothing but further muddy the waters. However... that doesn't mean that the result was undemocratic. :shrug:

As much as I hate it, Kirk, I think Brexit is gonna happen. But the referendum didn't address any details so these are up for a debate.

The whole thing is a disgrace. Democracy my ar**! These people are dishonest, deceitful and downright determined to get their own way. They care little for Mr and Mrs average.

I really hope the majority of voters are not so easily fooled and accepting of the way their intelligence has been and continues to be insulted. We should not bow down to a second vote and should hold on to our ‘democracy’ with everything we have.

The thing is Kirk, you're totally right with our first point there: The people who allowed the vote to happen very stupidly believed that they had predicted the outcome of the vote and that it would be remain... and the vote was lipservice to "put the issue to bed". Thus, they didn't bother to look into the practicalities of separating from Europe at all before holding the vote.

As far as I can tell, that's left us with a situation where it's not that the government is "dilly dallying" or specifically trying to "get out of it"... it's that dopmestic and European politics and trade became so intertwined over the last few decades that untangling them "fully", even with the best will to do so in the world, is proving to be practically impossible. They're procrastinating because they want the dust to have settled A LOT before they admit that they have no idea how to make it work.

But you're calling it childish when it's against trump, and you laughed and added to the hate-wagon when Kirk suggested doing it to Abbot? Picking both sides and neither sides of the fence at the same time here. It's very odd.

People are being deceived and misinformed by those having the the nerve to claim people were deceived and misinformed prior to the original vote. We are simply going around in circles and a second vote would be no more ‘honest and enlightened’ than the first. That in my book would make it undemocratic - because some will have given in to the constant fear-mongering by many. That is not an informed decision.