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-   -   Should Dog Owners be allowed to punish their dogs (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=343068)

Barry. 05-07-2018 05:29 PM
If they attacked or bite people I say yes. Over hyper dogs, maybe a tap on the nose.

kirklancaster 05-07-2018 05:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy (Post 10073067)
Its the owners who deserve the slap not the dogs !! Owners who think you should fall in love with their mutt ,Owners who dress the poor thing in a dickie bow thinking it looks good ,when it actually looks stupid, owners who spend more on clothes for the dog than they do their kids ,owners who think its fine to let their dog shed its entire fur over your black jeans, owners who dont clean the dog **** up from the pavements .... No the dogs dont deserve a slap .....the owners do
:clap1::clap1::clap1: Common sense, truth and logic - as always, Chuff.

Twosugars 05-07-2018 05:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 10073110)
It's legit worrying that some people think hitting a "big dog" is a good idea :umm2:. Keep it away from children because all you're doing is creating a big aggressive dog. The reason it doesn't bite back at the person doing the hitting is that it thinks that person is above them in the pecking order. And it thinks that the thing to do to anyone below them in the pecking order, is hurt them to assert themself.

In other words; it's going to lash out at other animals, other humans, and especially kids. Well done.

Despite people thinking that dogs are "super smart" - they are not. What they are is easily trained, because they are NOT all that smart, dog psychology is really very basic and all you have to do to assert yourself as your dog's pack leader is act like it. Stand over it, use a strong voice, always GIVE it food (never allow it to TAKE food from you) et voila. No hitting required.

Dogs are susceptible to pavlovian response; action = reward. They have no concept of negative consequence. They have literally no idea why they're being hit, and don't attach the "punishment" to the specific act that you're punishing them for, they just think you're randomly hitting them to gain submission.
TS, you've spoken so much sense in different threads today :worship:
some trumpets (not naming names) should learn from you :fist:

chuff me dizzy 05-07-2018 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirklancaster (Post 10073127)
:clap1::clap1::clap1: Common sense, truth and logic - as always, Chuff.
Why thank you kind sir :douf:

kirklancaster 05-07-2018 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 10073110)
It's legit worrying that some people think hitting a "big dog" is a good idea :umm2:. Keep it away from children because all you're doing is creating a big aggressive dog. The reason it doesn't bite back at the person doing the hitting is that it thinks that person is above them in the pecking order. And it thinks that the thing to do to anyone below them in the pecking order, is hurt them to assert themself.

In other words; it's going to lash out at other animals, other humans, and especially kids. Well done.

Despite people thinking that dogs are "super smart" - they are not. What they are is easily trained, because they are NOT all that smart, dog psychology is really very basic and all you have to do to assert yourself as your dog's pack leader is act like it. Stand over it, use a strong voice, always GIVE it food (never allow it to TAKE food from you) et voila. No hitting required.

Dogs are susceptible to pavlovian response; action = reward. They have no concept of negative consequence. They have literally no idea why they're being hit, and don't attach the "punishment" to the specific act that you're punishing them for, they just think you're randomly hitting them to gain submission.
Great post, T.S.

As with children, I don't like to witness anyone hitting a dog. There are other ways.

Kazanne 05-07-2018 05:40 PM
Sorry I would NEVER hit an animal never mind a dog , I have never had a nasty dog , they have all been as stupid as I am , I find a stern voice is usually enough, Our dog is part of our family , as is the cat , so, no smacking .

user104658 05-07-2018 05:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by parmnion (Post 10073116)
How do police train their dogs?
Food rewards and praise, pretty much the only way to properly train a dog. Of course the police trainers are highly skilled at it, and they can also tell very quickly which dogs are "cut out for it" and the others are sold on (or adopted by officers quite often).

My next door neighbour as a kid was a retired police dog trainer, he had two huge ex-police German Shepherds and a massive Black Lab, they were so well trained it was really fascinating.

Beso 05-07-2018 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy (Post 10073119)
By rewarding them ,I watched a documentary on it very interesting
Id like to watch that chuffle as my nephew sees it as a career move cause his pops kept alsations all his life..any idea what it was called?

Denver 05-07-2018 05:58 PM
If i ever caught my dog down the park with his mates drinking cider he knows he will be punished

Glenn. 05-07-2018 06:01 PM
I just have to look at my dog and she knows to stop what she’s doing. I’m a little bit more relaxed with her now as she’s kind of on her way out.

Kazanne 05-07-2018 06:38 PM
Kids and dogs have different roles in life though,so I think you do have to treat them differently, kids need to be taught the rights and wrongs of life and their punishments will be greater, I mean dogs wont be half as much work as a child, we have to use common sense with both. Children are a totally different ball game and very demanding.

GoldHeart 05-07-2018 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 10072949)
By hitting them? :think:

Lets see how this goes parmnion
Playfully on the nose maybe to let them know they've done something wrong. But it's usually your tone of voice and proper training which is how you discipline your dog :shrug: .

I don't agree with hitting them,if anything that'll probably cause the dog to lash out or you'll upset it .

The only way a dog should be hit or attacked is through self defense

montblanc 05-07-2018 07:52 PM
not at all

Wizard. 05-07-2018 08:17 PM
Well I shout at her say if she pees on the carpet I lock her in the bedroom but I have given her a little tap now and then nothing too hard but dogs can get over excited and sometimes it’s not appropriate

Redway 06-07-2018 11:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 10073110)
It's legit worrying that some people think hitting a "big dog" is a good idea :umm2:. Keep it away from children because all you're doing is creating a big aggressive dog. The reason it doesn't bite back at the person doing the hitting is that it thinks that person is above them in the pecking order. And it thinks that the thing to do to anyone below them in the pecking order, is hurt them to assert themself.

In other words; it's going to lash out at other animals, other humans, and especially kids. Well done.

Despite people thinking that dogs are "super smart" - they are not. What they are is easily trained, because they are NOT all that smart, dog psychology is really very basic and all you have to do to assert yourself as your dog's pack leader is act like it. Stand over it, use a strong voice, always GIVE it food (never allow it to TAKE food from you) et voila. No hitting required.

Dogs are susceptible to pavlovian response; action = reward. They have no concept of negative consequence. They have literally no idea why they're being hit, and don't attach the "punishment" to the specific act that you're punishing them for, they just think you're randomly hitting them to gain submission.
I don’t think concepts like submission apply to a dog.

Niamh. 06-07-2018 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazanne (Post 10073200)
Kids and dogs have different roles in life though,so I think you do have to treat them differently, kids need to be taught the rights and wrongs of life and their punishments will be greater, I mean dogs wont be half as much work as a child, we have to use common sense with both. Children are a totally different ball game and very demanding.
The question was by hitting them though

Niamh. 06-07-2018 11:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redway (Post 10074157)
I don’t think concepts like submission apply to a dog.
Of course they do, maybe even more so than in humans infact

chuff me dizzy 06-07-2018 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by parmnion (Post 10073136)
Id like to watch that chuffle as my nephew sees it as a career move cause his pops kept alsations all his life..any idea what it was called?
No sorry it was a couple of years ago now x

user104658 06-07-2018 11:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redway (Post 10074157)
I don’t think concepts like submission apply to a dog.
Submission is the CORE concept of training a dog :think:. They're pack animals, they follow a pack hierarchy and submit to those who are higher in the pecking order. That's pretty much dog psychology in a nutshell. All of the human characteristics that humans put on them (e.g. "My dog loves me!" / "My dog misses me when I'm not around!") are just expressions of that. Dogs neither love nor miss humans, they just know they're ****ed without their pack leaders, so they suck up to them, and get anxious when they're "missing".

user104658 06-07-2018 11:11 AM
That happy crazy excitement when you come home? That's not "I'm so happy to see you!", that's "OH THANK GOD I was worried that I might starve!"

Twosugars 06-07-2018 11:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redway (Post 10074157)
I don’t think concepts like submission apply to a dog.
:conf:

so submission and dominance are alien concepts to pack animals like dogs?
submission/dominance postures and behaviours they display from puppyhood throughout their lives are what in your view?

Twosugars 06-07-2018 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 10074170)
That happy crazy excitement when you come home? That's not "I'm so happy to see you!", that's "OH THANK GOD I was worried that I might starve!"
a tad outdated view
latest research (there's been a great rediscovery of dogs in science) suggest they do actually feel love

Twosugars 06-07-2018 11:17 AM
of course they see us as a prized resource to be protected, but that's not all, they also love us

Redway 06-07-2018 11:20 AM
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl...lly-experience

According to that study dogs’ emotions stop just after love (the 2-year-old human equivalent).

Niamh. 06-07-2018 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redway (Post 10074191)
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl...lly-experience

According to that study dogs’ emotions stop just after love (the 2-year-old human equivalent).
Submission isn't an emotion though, it's a behaviour

Redway 06-07-2018 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 10074203)
Submission isn't an emotion though, it's a behaviour
I was talking about love there though.

Niamh. 06-07-2018 11:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redway (Post 10074206)
I was talking about love there though.
right, well submission as others have said apply to dogs in a big way, ever heard of Top Dog or Alpha dog? :laugh:

Redway 06-07-2018 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 10074211)
right, well submission as others have said apply to dogs in a big way, ever heard of Top Dog or Alpha dog? :laugh:
I was being a little tongue-in-cheek when I made that comment about submission. It obviously applies to them on a biological level in a big way but there’s just something about the way TS worded submission. In the emotional human sense but I knew what he meant. Only the wording sounded funny that’s all.

Niamh. 06-07-2018 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redway (Post 10074214)
I was being a little tongue-in-cheek when I made that comment about submission. It obviously applies to them on a biological level in a big way but there’s just something about the way TS worded submission. In the emotional human sense but I knew what he meant. Only the wording sounded funny that’s all.
sounded exactly like it should be meant to me but ok....

Redway 06-07-2018 11:41 AM
LMAO. Are dog matters really that deep?

Niamh. 06-07-2018 11:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redway (Post 10074227)
LMAO. Are dog matters really that deep?
No?

AnnieK 06-07-2018 12:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redway (Post 10074227)
LMAO. Are dog matters really that deep?
Classic submission post:laugh:

Twosugars 06-07-2018 01:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redway (Post 10074191)
https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl...lly-experience

According to that study dogs’ emotions stop just after love (the 2-year-old human equivalent).
:clap1: very good summary

thanks, Redway!

Quote:
...your dog can still feel love for you, and contentment when you are around, and aren't these the emotions we truly value?

Twosugars 06-07-2018 01:11 PM
the MRI experiments with oxytocin release in the brain confirm that dogs have the same reaction to their owners like owners have to them, love

caprimint 06-07-2018 01:14 PM
It's possible to show authority without hitting them (the same as it is with kids)

Niamh. 06-07-2018 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by caprimint (Post 10074309)
It's possible to show authority without hitting them (the same as it is with kids)
Of course it is. The most confusing thing is people who think it's fine to hit a child but evil to hit a dog

caprimint 06-07-2018 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 10072971)
Neem i have seen too many owners where the fecking dog thinks its the boss of the house

"oh dont move him from the sofa he can get quite snappy"

i mean wtaf? :conf:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet (Post 10073014)
you sound like the type of owner who sits on the carpet and eats his tea whilst the dog snoozes on the best chair
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy (Post 10073067)
Its the owners who deserve the slap not the dogs !! Owners who think you should fall in love with their mutt ,Owners who dress the poor thing in a dickie bow thinking it looks good ,when it actually looks stupid, owners who spend more on clothes for the dog than they do their kids ,owners who think its fine to let their dog shed its entire fur over your black jeans, owners who dont clean the dog **** up from the pavements .... No the dogs dont deserve a slap .....the owners do
:joker::joker::joker::joker:

Omg this thread is too much. I should've known there would be some hilarious replies with Chuff and LT posting in here though. :joker:

Twosugars 06-07-2018 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 10074315)
Of course it is. The most confusing thing is people who think it's fine to hit a child but evil to hit a dog
so how this experiment with parallel threads (kids/dogs) is coming along?
have you identified anybody who thinks like that?

user104658 06-07-2018 01:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twosugars (Post 10074305)
the MRI experiments with oxytocin release in the brain confirm that dogs have the same reaction to their owners like owners have to them, love
OK so they they experience something which chemically resembles (the human concept of) love... But then, we could go into a much deeper philosophical discussion there Twosugars... Namely, "what is the biological purpose of love".

But that's a bit in depth (and sort of grim / cynical) for a nice sunny afternoon :joker:

Ant. 06-07-2018 01:20 PM
I'm no dog expert but I've read on multiple places that hitting dogs doesn't 'discipline' them

I wouldn't have it in me to hit my dogs anyway


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