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Fetch The Bolt Cutters 29-01-2021 09:14 PM

Colin

Fetch The Bolt Cutters 29-01-2021 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake. (Post 10992655)
The ending to ep 2 was.. haunting.

What was it icr

joeysteele 29-01-2021 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake. (Post 10992655)
The ending to ep 2 was.. haunting.

It was Jake.
Very powerful and really sad.

Jake. 29-01-2021 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fetch The Bolt Cutters (Post 10992661)
What was it icr

Finding out Gloria had died / his family burning all of his things in the garden

user104658 02-02-2021 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oliver_W (Post 10991480)
Well sure, but it's also dangerous to be a woman in many of those same places. Some places are just trash :shrug: but obviously I was only speaking for the West.

There's still parts of every UK city where you'll get verbal abuse for being openly gay, and then physically assaulted if you say anything back. OK, yes, it's mainly pubs/bars that I personally wouldn't ever be in by choice anyway ... but the fact remains, I *could* go to those places openly with my wife and be perfectly safe, whereas my friend definitely could not go there with his husband. Not as an obvious couple. They've been together 10 years and married for four, and I've seen them have to pretend to just be friends in public depending on the area, not because something would "definitely" happen but because enough has happened in the past for it not to be worth the hassle. It makes me equal parts sad and very angry.

I'm not saying it's not a hell of a lot better in the UK than in many other countries, the vast majority of places you would ever actually WANT to go are safe, but it's certainly not 100% "fine to be gay in the UK" quite yet.

Also you said "the West" not just the UK and there are huge parts of the US that are still heavily blinkered hardcore Christian and being openly gay would not be the most comfortable life.

user104658 02-02-2021 07:52 PM

The whole thing was pretty grim, well made though.
Spoiler:

I have to say I wasn't the BIGGEST fan of how the mother was portrayed in the final episode - a touch of misogyny going on in the writing there tbqfh - and also Jill going in on her so hard in the final scenes felt really off. Her son had literally JUST died and it didn't feel warranted or cathartic or anything... also didn't feel like what Ritchie would have wanted so made Jill come across as selfish in one of her final scenes? I dunno. Again not sure about the writing. Felt like it was written by someone who is not a parent. Hmm.

Fetch The Bolt Cutters 02-02-2021 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 10994294)
The whole thing was pretty grim, well made though.
Spoiler:

I have to say I wasn't the BIGGEST fan of how the mother was portrayed in the final episode - a touch of misogyny going on in the writing there tbqfh - and also Jill going in on her so hard in the final scenes felt really off. Her son had literally JUST died and it didn't feel warranted or cathartic or anything... also didn't feel like what Ritchie would have wanted so made Jill come across as selfish in one of her final scenes? I dunno. Again not sure about the writing. Felt like it was written by someone who is not a parent. Hmm.

I feel like you’ve just completely missed the point here my love :skull:

Yeah her son had just died but she didn’t even really know him (not that she was to blame for that though)

Jill was his proper family and his maw had prevented them from being together when he passed away which was done out of nowt but spite so yeah so totally did deserve it

I’d have thrown in a slap for good measure meself

Daniel-X 02-02-2021 10:29 PM

So powerful, one of the best dramas I’ve ever seen. Episode 3 and 5 are unbelievably sad, I could not stop crying :sad:

Keeley Hawes was sensational in the final episode, I LOATHED Ritchie’s mum but she played her unbelievably.

Ammi 03-02-2021 05:37 AM

...Richie’s mum...

Spoiler:

...Scott she kind of did get that ‘slap’ in that he told her who he was, that there had been 100’s of men...the good, the bad and the ugly/type thing...and his words, something like ...’some of them right bastards but I enjoyed every moment...’...that was her ‘slap’, I felt...he was telling her who he was and even though it had led to him there and losing his life, he would not ever mor could ever change who he was...

....Richie’s mum was a product of her time and she wasn’t really a likeable person because sadly, a product of that time had much bigotry...for me, Keeley Hawes played her in as likeable and sympathetic way as she could, she was superb...:lovedup:...young men were dying, they were dying en masse and as was said...if these were heterosexual men...there would be screaming and rioting in every street and what is this goddamn disease...!!!!!!...but that’s not how it was, they were ‘silent deaths’ and ‘hidden deaths’ because of the bigotry of the time ...they were deaths from cancer or pneumonia or something else, anything else, but they weren’t AIDS...because AIDS would only bring judgement...


...Jill’s character was the ‘mother’ who knew him, who knew Richie and not the ideal or idea of Richie that his mother still lived in...to acknowledge and accept who someone is and to love who they are and not who you would like them to be, is the ‘greater love’ /..the more unconditional love, I feel....Jill became what families had rejected and she loved as a parent loves, she became that for many of the characters...but she was prevented from being with Richie, she was kept from him at his time of death and she was told in a very cold way...’oh he died..’ ...and that was that..?...and how she had to tell others who loved him as well, who had known him completely and loved him...even in his death and a mother/son love that she felt...his mother still couldn’t accept him as Richie, but only ‘her Richie’ and she kept him from the people who loved him and who desperately needed to say goodbye to him...just all very sad but yeah, so much of its time...

Daniel-X 04-02-2021 09:37 AM

I haven’t stopped thinking about this since I finished it. Just haunting from start to finish :sad:

The poor gays of the 1980s :sad: it just makes me feel so lucky to be born in a different time, but so angry too at the hardships they had to face. The scary thing it is it was only relatively recent too :(

user104658 04-02-2021 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fetch The Bolt Cutters (Post 10994320)
I feel like you’ve just completely missed the point here my love :skull:

Yeah her son had just died but she didn’t even really know him (not that she was to blame for that though)

Jill was his proper family and his maw had prevented them from being together when he passed away which was done out of nowt but spite so yeah so totally did deserve it

I’d have thrown in a slap for good measure meself

I didn't miss the point but it wasn't well written... it could have worked in a myriad of different ways - e.g. if the conversation had been a month later, it could have worked. If Jill had simply been furious/upset about not getting to be with him when he died, it could have worked. BUT she's literally only just found out that he's gone and she has a pre-prepared, cold and calculated take-down for someone who has just seen their child die? It's a narrative mis-step in the first place.

That aside... as she walks away the mum is all of a sudden apologetic and saying "I'm sorry... I didn't know..." which is so far from the realms of realism for how ANYONE would be reacting in that situation that it jumps the shark completely. Let alone a character who has been portrayed as being blinkered and bigoted up until this point... was Jill's speech so poignant that it would somehow reach a freshly-grieving mother and change her entire worldview? No... it's not realistic human psychology... she would be angry, broken and incredulous and tell Jill to go **** herself. Would that be fair or reasonable? No. SHOULD she be sorry for her attitudes and what they have lead to? Absolutely. But realistically, would she be, right there and then having only just heard it? Nope... no chance. Again to be realistic, she would have completely rejected the idea that it was her fault in that moment, and if you want a scene of her having absorbed it and accepted blame, it would come months later after sitting with it and hours of introspection. Even having her angry as Jill walked off, and then one little extra scene of Jill receiving an "I'm sorry, you were right" letter a while later, would have improved the writing there.

I know it's supposed to be a powerful scene but in terms of characterisation, it's not well written, which is a shame because the rest of the writing is brilliant.

smudgie 05-02-2021 07:59 AM

I can’t bring myself to watch this, too many painful memories.
But I am so pleased this series has been aired.

Black Dagger 05-02-2021 09:04 PM

Episode 3 just completly broke me.

This needs to be up for every single award in the 2022 season. If it doesn't win a BAFTA or Emmy I will be furious.

Jake. 05-02-2021 09:18 PM

Episode 3 broke me. Genuinely the most upsetting piece of television I’ve watched in a long time.

Jarrod 05-02-2021 09:22 PM

I'd already watched this in full a couple of weeks ago but I know Episode 3 aired tonight and it's the hardest out of them all. Completely unexpected as well, which made it worse.

Cherie 05-02-2021 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarrod (Post 10995438)
I'd already watched this in full a couple of weeks ago but I know Episode 3 aired tonight and it's the hardest out of them all. Completely unexpected as well, which made it worse.

.

joeysteele 05-02-2021 10:03 PM

Really heavy going tonight.
Excellently acted out however.
Very strong series.

Jake. 06-02-2021 12:09 AM

Honestly can’t get over that episode :(

Jake. 06-02-2021 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 10994290)
There's still parts of every UK city where you'll get verbal abuse for being openly gay, and then physically assaulted if you say anything back. OK, yes, it's mainly pubs/bars that I personally wouldn't ever be in by choice anyway ... but the fact remains, I *could* go to those places openly with my wife and be perfectly safe, whereas my friend definitely could not go there with his husband. Not as an obvious couple. They've been together 10 years and married for four, and I've seen them have to pretend to just be friends in public depending on the area, not because something would "definitely" happen but because enough has happened in the past for it not to be worth the hassle. It makes me equal parts sad and very angry.

I'm not saying it's not a hell of a lot better in the UK than in many other countries, the vast majority of places you would ever actually WANT to go are safe, but it's certainly not 100% "fine to be gay in the UK" quite yet.

Also you said "the West" not just the UK and there are huge parts of the US that are still heavily blinkered hardcore Christian and being openly gay would not be the most comfortable life.

Also :clap1: you put it better than I could have

Jack_ 08-02-2021 09:56 PM

La! :love:

I want that to become a thing in my life

Jack_ 08-02-2021 09:58 PM

This was great but (understandably) miserable

Pissing in Thatcher’s tea was quality content though <3

Beso 12-02-2021 08:08 PM

It dont even have a decent soundtrack.

Black Dagger 12-02-2021 08:17 PM

ok if that's all you're taking from the show that's thought provoking, captivating, heart warming and heart breaking all at the same time x

Beso 12-02-2021 08:21 PM

No provocation from me, I'm still watching it atm even though there are no songs from the 80s interludes.

Shaun 20-02-2021 05:24 AM

Just binged the first three episodes and... well... I've been needing a good cry all week so that was a hell of a smack of catharsis.

Spoiler:

I actually curled up into a ball lmao... obviously Colin's death is heartbreaking in and of itself, but the way his mother was subject to abuse (the **** through the letterbox), the legal rigamarole, and just 100% supportive even when he was going senile and masturbating in the hospital bed (bye :skull: )... ugh my heart broke specifically for her, and so many other mums and sisters out there (and, dare I say, even the occasional dad or brother) who weren't judgmental, weren't burning their dead sons' possessions out of shame and disgust, or fear of contagion... weren't calling them dirty queers, but just... loved their sons.

Ugh... the AIDS crisis just absolutely breaks my heart whatever the manner of media I digest it through is. So, so many bright and talented and beautiful people just... gone, in their prime. I can't think about it for too long without crying but it's just so important to commemorate these people.

I was thinking "...that guy Colin's moved in with, bet they're gonna shag :hehe:" and then nothing happened... so to see that all play back was a moment of "I bloody knew it :oh:" at least :love:

LOVE Roscoe and Jill... loved Henry too, especially since I actually find Neil Patrick Harris a little insufferable, but he was fantastic in this even if only for a brief episode. Soundtrack is fantastic, naturally, but the acting is superb from pretty much everyone.

Ammi 20-02-2021 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun (Post 11003907)
Just binged the first three episodes and... well... I've been needing a good cry all week so that was a hell of a smack of catharsis.

Spoiler:

I actually curled up into a ball lmao... obviously Colin's death is heartbreaking in and of itself, but the way his mother was subject to abuse (the **** through the letterbox), the legal rigamarole, and just 100% supportive even when he was going senile and masturbating in the hospital bed (bye :skull: )... ugh my heart broke specifically for her, and so many other mums and sisters out there (and, dare I say, even the occasional dad or brother) who weren't judgmental, weren't burning their dead sons' possessions out of shame and disgust, or fear of contagion... weren't calling them dirty queers, but just... loved their sons.

Ugh... the AIDS crisis just absolutely breaks my heart whatever the manner of media I digest it through is. So, so many bright and talented and beautiful people just... gone, in their prime. I can't think about it for too long without crying but it's just so important to commemorate these people.

I was thinking "...that guy Colin's moved in with, bet they're gonna shag :hehe:" and then nothing happened... so to see that all play back was a moment of "I bloody knew it :oh:" at least :love:

LOVE Roscoe and Jill... loved Henry too, especially since I actually find Neil Patrick Harris a little insufferable, but he was fantastic in this even if only for a brief episode. Soundtrack is fantastic, naturally, but the acting is superb from pretty much everyone.


....Jill’s mum was such a wonderful lady as well...she was played by the ‘real life’ Jill as well, which is pretty lovely...:lovedup:..


...yeah, you would have needed that cry..:hug:..I often find that I’m drawn to sad things when I’m feeling low because they do give release as well...

UserSince2005 20-02-2021 08:23 AM

I always did wonder what happened to years and years

joeysteele 20-02-2021 08:28 AM

This was really a powerful and heartbreaking series.
Superbly acted.
One of the best things on TV for ages.

Just so sad.

Jack_ 20-02-2021 10:40 AM

Oh also why is Ritchie Tozer like the perfect gay :flutter:

Black Dagger 20-02-2021 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 11004008)
Oh also why is Ritchie Tozer like the perfect gay :flutter:

I mean he's extremely flawed.

Jack_ 20-02-2021 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black Dagger (Post 11004011)
I mean he's extremely flawed.

Not aesthetically m’love!

Jarrod 20-02-2021 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 11004008)
Oh also why is Ritchie Tozer like the perfect gay :flutter:

I mean, I'd probably say he's more the "stereotypical" and accepted gay image, which sucks to say.

Shaun 20-02-2021 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack_ (Post 11004014)
Not aesthetically m’love!

Meh! He's no Nathaniel Hall

Glenn. 24-02-2021 12:30 AM

Well I’ve just done all 5 episodes the last couple of days. It broke me tbh

Rob! 25-02-2021 02:17 PM

I binged the whole lot in a night when it dropped on All 4 which probably wasn't the wisest move psychologically, but my God, what a series. Broke me. Amazing. Russel T Davies is a genius.

Shaun 03-03-2021 07:12 AM

Finished the other two episodes

Spoiler:

I knew it was coming because I'm an idiot who likes to read spoilers before I watch TV shows and films... but whew that was a heavy watch.

I am now in a predicament where I feel like if I ever saw Keeley Hawes I would smack her in the face :worry:

Episode four was done a little better IMO... the fifth had a lot of loose ends to tie up, whereas 4 was all about Ritchie going home, getting the diagnosis, finally owning up to his behaviour and shame, reliving his past and going through the stages of grief (that scene where he breaks down in that boy's car, and then gets out and performs some ballet moves in the headlights... absolutely stunning).

And then obviously the fifth episode was inevitable... I've already said in here about how heartbreaking and difficult it was for families of the deceased to come to terms with, but even small details like Ritchie's sister crying with Roscoe & Jill in the B&B just... really well done. And the final scenes with Jill just stopping in on lonely strangers because she never got to say goodbye to Ritchie... yeah that ruined me lol.

I need to read up on Jill herself... she was based on this woman (who makes a cameo herself, as 'Jill's mum' in the final two episodes): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55937944 She seems like an absolute hero.

Cherie 03-03-2021 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun (Post 11009515)
Finished the other two episodes

Spoiler:

I knew it was coming because I'm an idiot who likes to read spoilers before I watch TV shows and films... but whew that was a heavy watch.

I am now in a predicament where I feel like if I ever saw Keeley Hawes I would smack her in the face :worry:

Episode four was done a little better IMO... the fifth had a lot of loose ends to tie up, whereas 4 was all about Ritchie going home, getting the diagnosis, finally owning up to his behaviour and shame, reliving his past and going through the stages of grief (that scene where he breaks down in that boy's car, and then gets out and performs some ballet moves in the headlights... absolutely stunning).

And then obviously the fifth episode was inevitable... I've already said in here about how heartbreaking and difficult it was for families of the deceased to come to terms with, but even small details like Ritchie's sister crying with Roscoe & Jill in the B&B just... really well done. And the final scenes with Jill just stopping in on lonely strangers because she never got to say goodbye to Ritchie... yeah that ruined me lol.

I need to read up on Jill herself... she was based on this woman (who makes a cameo herself, as 'Jill's mum' in the final two episodes): https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55937944 She seems like an absolute hero.

Keeley Hawes is such a versatile actress, she never typecasts herself

she was fantastic in Finding Alice as the grieving widow

In Honour playing the real life Sergeant who brought the family to justice

The Home Secretary in the Bodyguard

Line of Duty

I could go on, so no violence for a wonderful actress :nono: unlike Jimmy Nesbitt who seems to play the same character in everything he is in

Shaun 03-03-2021 08:46 AM

Yeah she looks great in that upcoming film about Roald Dahl with whatshisname from Downton Abbey, too. Plus there was Ashes to Ashes, of course.

Ammi 03-03-2021 09:05 AM

...that you want to smack Keeley in the face, Shaun...shows what a terrific actress she is and how excellently she portrayed Richie’s mum...it really is an award winning performance...:lovedup:...Keeley is such the lady of the moment in terms of the roles she’s getting and how in demand she is...she’s always been a favourite for me...so it’s lovely to see her get the recognition she deserves...:love:...

...I started to read up on Jill Nalder while I was watching it also...and yeah, what an amazing and inspirational lady and at a time when so many needed that caring and support in the LGBT community...:love:...

Niamh. 03-03-2021 09:06 AM

I was planning to watch this but I got the last episode spoiled on Goggle Box


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