Tbf just because there's a sigh of relief at a no deal Brexit, doesn't mean that people have to still be happy that Brexit has gone ahead.

I mean look at America at the moment, we've a man and his supporters moaning about a result that was far larger in defeat than the neck and neck EU Referendum that was only meant to be advisory initially.

I agree with you really.

I just feared a no deal scenario.

I'm sure some did but of those I know who voted leave not one was voting for or wanting a no deal scenario

I think it was Cherie who said this could be likely revisited in the future and I do think it will.
As the make up of the voting public changes in all UK Nations

I'm not yet of the view in 2024 that another Party winning a majority in parliament is likely.
However equally, now brexit is settled for a period, I don't believe Johnson and the Cons will get a majority next time either.

So the prospect of no deal is unlikely even in 2025.

With the Pandemic crisis and all that is likely to surface against Johnson, his Ministers and government, I REALLY can't see him being more than the largest party in 2024 at best.

So the review may open up new demands from the electorate too.
Maybe I'm putting too much optimism in play here.
However, brexit, this deal on trade in place now, the issue quietened more if not eradicated.
Then the chaos of the pandemic, I'm not convinced Johnson will even want to be around to fight the 2024 election.

It's not the deal Starmer wanted, or Labour however to just oppose it leaving the chance of no deal being the scenario would leave Labour and Starmer really isolated in my view.
Even to voters with absolutely no credibility.

Everyone I've spoken to who supported Labour last year.
Never wanted no deal.
To see the leader and party voting this deal down then leaving only no deal left in place.

I wouldn't like to think what those supporters would think at that.
Myself too Slim, I'd have been stunned had Starmer decided to vote against this deal and left us with no deal.
Starmer isn't my idea of the best leader for Labour.
However I can't see that he could or should do anything else rather than vote this bill through.

Longer term this leaves a way back which no deal wouldn't likely have as to closer ties again.

I'd rather not have left at all definitely.
I still hope for the opportunity to arise to return too.

most people won't give a crap about the trade deal. When the supermarket prices remain the same, when the price on amazon remains the same, when goods are in ready supply and demand, people will be quite happy. The only noticeable difference will be having to queue in the non EU section of the airport. Most political parties understand that the relationship with the EU is a toxic subject, they wont touch it with a barge pole, not after the last 4 years. If labour have any sense at all they will leave any discussion of the EU firmly behind them at the next election

It's not voting for a no-deal though, it would be taking a principled stand (something Starmer knows absolutely nothing about) against a really bad deal. This doesn't need labour vote to pass, so offering them up voluntarily for this really bad piece of legislation is ridiculous, and will remove any opportunity to criticise this government and it's fake victory proclamations surrounding the deal.

Joint ownership of something bad, doesn't make you responsible, it makes you stupid.

If you think this deal won't have any repercussions and consequences beyond a few people queing in an airport, then you're in for a rough ride.

Boris said he would get it done and he did. The GBP like a politician who does what he says.

unlike you, i remember life before we joined the EU and everything was perfectly fine. You have a bee in your bonnet about things completely unrelated to trade, and i'm afraid you are just going to have to get used to it or you are going to have a miserable time of it. We are out of the EU, and now is the time we take responsibility for ourselves

Remembering life before the EU makes you an expert, but someone who looks at the details has a bee in their bonnet? I'm used to it, because I've known all along it's a sham. We've given up and away so much for next to nothing. There is no metric on anything relevant that suggests we will be better off under this deal, which was the main promise.

As an example, we've given up access to the EU crime database which our forces use over a million times each day. Companies and jobs will still leave the island, but of course, it's all about a bee. Absolutely ridiculous post from you bots.

Remain and leave are no more, we're all governed by the same consequences and lies, and to not examine those consequences is how we got here in the first place.

Comparing "life before the EU" to now is meaningless because globalisation and neoliberalism came post-eu. We could argue until the EU beef comes home about what role the EU plays in that, of course, but it doesn't really matter much - the important thing to point out is that the global economy, and even moreso the British economy, doesn't function in an even remotely similar way today as it did pre-80's so "how stuff was before" is totally irrelevant.

That said I think it is an important part of Brexit psychology - an idea that leaving the EU means "going back" to how things were before we entered the EU... a complete misconception...

trade will continue, tariff free ... all the rest is politics, and peoples political preferences. There was never agreement in this area and never will be and thats why Tony Blair didnt ask for a referendum when we signed the Maastricht treaty. This is all pay back for that

Doesn’t actually answer anything. You were promised a life of luxury with more money in the economy and rainbows and kittens

Has any aspect of modern Britain improved because of this deal

...You’re gonna skirt around the question again aren’t you

That's pretty rose-tinted. Boris Johnson said that no PM should ever sign up to an agreement that would allow the EU to impose tariffs, well this deal makes that a reality in the short to medium term, especially considering that the EU is always looking at ways to raise standards, and we are in a race to the bottom. It's tariff-free at the moment, but it won't be for long. The rest isn't political preference when it affects the daily lives of Uk citizens. No one voted to leave because it would cost jobs, shrink the economy, and raise the cost of living.

Political preference was never mentioned in amongst sunlit uplands, and funding the NHS. It's all a load of bollocks. It's a bad deal with real world consequences. That's a fact.

Covid offers an easy get out of jail free card for supporters, though.

"Brexit hasn't made anythibg better though has it."

"Well it WOULD have but Covid came along and ruined the economy so..."

Its sort of like a form of plausible deniability.

now that we have a trade deal in place, we will be reeling from covid, but there is considerable optimism from the economic experts that we will have a substantial bounce back this year.

I can only speak for my own business and this year was a very good year so it's not all doom and gloom, there are always some parts of the economy that flourish even in bad times

pushing your own opinions as fact is hardly debate now is it?

:umm2:

The whole thread is based on an opinion not a fact so who cares?...

Not really. We already know enough about what was given away, and what we got in return. If you ever had any interest at all in the debate you could explain why I'm wrong, but we both know you don't have that interest.

Even in that post I gave facts that should be easily disprovable to a debate-minded guy like yourself.

We're adults here, we should have the reading comprehension to differentiate between someone saying a fact and someone stating an opinion. Attacking someone's posts by falsely suggesting they are stating an opinion as fact says more about the person doing it then the posts they attack.

Perhaps we should clearly signpost when something is a fact or an opinion for the benefit of those lacking in basic reading comprehension.

no reading comprehension is required when the text states "It's a bad deal with real world consequences. That's a fact."

:laugh:

Not getting at slim, just pointing out the absurdity of saying something is an opinion when its clearly stated as a fact

Tony Blair didn't sign the Maastricht treaty, that was the Cons and Major.

Tony Blair wasn't even leader of the Labour party at the Maastricht treaty time.

All the treaties signed most under the Cons in their 18 years of unbroken power, were never put to the UK in a referendum.

There were amendments later as other Nations joined.
Blair definitely was in favour of joining the Euro too.
Which he wasn't given the green light to do by his then Chancellor Gordon Brown.

However the whole concept of the Maastricht treaty was in 1992, when Major was PM.
In fact he had a nightmare time of things apparently then from his own backbenchers.

It doesn't really matter, I don't take something as a fact unless it can be backed up. Pretty much everyone is stating an opinion in this thread, it's only when certain parties have nothing to add that they reach for the whole 'misconstruing opinions as facts' card.

Its why I highlighted it Bots

And then predictably had nothing else to offer when given the chance.

And I'm happy to standby the fact that this is a bad deal with real world consequences. :blush:

I didn't stop the video as it's worth watching all the way to the end.

From the NY times

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqaJKnKW...pg&name=medium

https://media.tenor.com/images/3eed4...da46/tenor.gif

References to decades-old computer software are included in the new Brexit agreement, including a description of Netscape Communicator and Mozilla Mail as being "modern" services.

Experts believe officials must have copied and pasted chunks of text from old legislation into the document.

The references are on page 921 of the trade deal, in a section on encryption technology.

It also recommends using systems that are now vulnerable to cyber-attacks.

The text cites "modern e-mail software packages including Outlook, Mozilla Mail as well as Netscape Communicator 4.x."

The latter two are now defunct - the last major release of Netscape Communicator was in 1997.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-55475433

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This bodes well :laugh: