so if true that is one specific example

Not

In general

Hmmmm very tricky one.
I think it’s disrespectful to keep calling someone by their biological gender because it’s what they were born with, things change and people feel differently and if there are ways for people to feel true to themselves then we should allow that and respect them.

On the other hand, sports categories are separated into men and women because of biology, and although trans people want to escape from their biological selves, it also has to be fair amongst everyone. If a trans male was to complete in a male team sport they would have a disadvantage as they are competing with cis males who are, biologically generally, more muscular, quicker, stronger etc - so it wouldn’t be fair on the trans male here.

Trans females compete in cis female sports gives the disadvantage to the other females who have trained hard to be a pro I’m their field, again down to genetics, so wouldn’t be fair on the cis females.

It’s such a thin line and a grey area and most sports empires are scared to address in fear of saying something incorrect and tbh I don’t think there ever will be a resolution, unless you split it into four:
CIS MEN
CIS WOMEN
TRANS MEN
TRANS WOMEM

But who’s saying there will be enough competitors on the trans teams, because like @goldheart said, the case for most trans people is not that they wanna compete in their genders sport.

In the states with Joe Bidens new bill all you need do is say which gender you identify as, no medication required

I don't identify as a cis woman, I identify as a biological woman.

If the women have any sense they will identify as male for the higher pay packet..

I'm back tomorrow with some more useful life tips.:wavey:

If women could just identify out of being women that easily our lives in general would be a lot easier

people are just trying to muddy the waters and create conflict and confusion in my humble opinion. Sports should continue to by categorized by biological sex. If within those sex categories there are different genders ... that is something the world will need to get used to, but at least the fairness of competition will be maintained.

They wouldn’t be able to compete in the top male tiers. That’s the whole problem, Parmy. One of the Williams sisters did an exhibition match that all but proved this years back; she played a male player who was way down at 100th+ in the rankings while she was #1 in women’s tennis and he beat her fairly quickly. Her technical game (the part you can practice) was miles ahead of his, but the strength and speed of the serve in the men’s game meant she struggled to return serve frequently. It quite succinctly sums up the issue I think. Women can train to be just as skilled as men, but they can’t realistically reach the same strength level... because it’s a basic biological advantage. There’s no way around it.

Then shouldn't they be treated like all the other men who cant make the grade in that case, as that would maintain their acceptance level fairly.

FC Dallas under-15 boys beat the USA Women's National team 5-2

:skull:

if you look at the mixed doubles matches at wimbledon, when the man serves against the woman it's hilarious. If they are lucky enough to get the ball back, the follow up smash ends the point

The issue there is in performance enhancement though, and it still disproportionately affects women’s sports. A biologically female transman who has been on testosterone for years will ALSO have a distinct strength advantage over unmedicated people. There’s a reason that various hormones are banned as performance enhancing drugs in most if not all sports.

The inverse would be true of men’s sports; if a top male Rugby player starts taking female hormones to transition, he will quickly lose the strength needed to compete in the top men’s tiers.

The problem is that hormones end up with a “half way point” that fits in neither category. Trans women taking hormones lose physical strength, so they’re not as strong as the men, but are still stronger than other women. Transmen gain an advantage over other biological females, but it’s unlikely to be to the extent that they can compete with biological males.

I can appreciate that it’s very complicated. But of course, the focus needs to always remain in no one gaining an unfair advantage, and (first and foremost) safety.

It makes for some really boring tennis matches in early rounds to be honest, the big-serve men’s games. Quarter finals and beyond is the only part that’s still good because the top tier players are the only ones who can reliably return a top tier serve and get into the part of the game that’s actually entertaining to watch.

Are you talking about transmen here or all women? If you're talking about transmen presumably that is what already happens

Tennis is pretty much the only sport I voluntarily watch for fun, as an interesting tidbit of TS info :joker:. But just the final stages of the big 4.

Was never into tennis at all, definitely more of a combat sport fan myself

As far as I know, there aren't any specific reles against sportspeople taking performance degrading drugs? Like, laws aside, the leagues don't specifically say "thou shalt not get stoned every night", even though doing so would damage their perfomance?

Transition hormones should be treated similarly. If a transwoman can't keep up with the other males as a result of taking the hormones, the choice should be a)give up the sport or b)stop taking the hormones.

Fury over decision to let transsexual enter Tokyo Olympics: New Zealand's female
weightlifters reveal they are 'told to be quiet' when they complain that a woman 'will lose
out'

1. New Zealand transgender athlete Laurel Hubbard is set to compete at Olympics
2. Hubbard competed in men's weightlifting competitions before transitioning
3. But former weightlifter Tracey Lambrechs has said women are being silenced
4. Those that complain, she says, are being 'told to be quiet' if they voice concern

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/05...0401785867.jpghttps://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/05...0410886134.jpg

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-Olympics.html

top comment by miles:

I may be wrong but I have never heard of females who have trans to
males wanting to enter male competitions. I wonder why that is, is it
because they know they wouldn't stand a chance of winning.

:skull:

New Zealand are almost guaranteed a Gold medal in the "female" category, then...

Didn’t she literally kill someone and get away with it bc she’s rich :skull:

It was a car crash, presumably that was an accident?

no

I don't know much about it,but I assumed it was an accident aswell.

From good old wikipedia. It seems like there wasn't enough evidence that she was at fault for prosecutors to press charges, but some of the victims felt that she was at fault and filed civil lawsuits for damages which were settled out of court (so unknown how a court would have ruled on those too).

So definitely an accident but in terms of being at fault, an "unknown, not enough evidence either way" situation I think.

Being at fault doesn't stop it being an accident though (unless she was drink driving or something like that?) But she would surely have been Breathalyzed

Yeah and (I would have thought) definitely charged if there was proof of intoxication or reckless driving or anything like that. TBH sounds like she just ****ed up/made an error which obviously happens to all drivers at some point, but sadly someone died.

Then again, 25+ years ago my own grandmother was killed by a driver doing 60mph into a village over a blind summit which is pretty unambiguously reckless to me, but they didn't prosecute there either! So I understand families feeling differently I guess.

…it was (…apparently found by the Sheriff’s office investigations…)…that she was driving at an unfit or unsafe speed for the weather conditions but that no criminal charges would be made…

Thanks Ammi

…she did give a settlement of $800,000 to the family, though…

I guess when you can't argue against what she said, bring up something irrelevant to the topic to distract from it. :skull:

To be fair I think out of court settlements are often seen as an admission of guilt, when really it can just be people not wanting the situation to carry on any longer. Also I guess it sounds like she was considered to be at fault for the accident, but not to a criminal extent, which again I guess is often the case with traffic incidents - e.g. insurers will decide that one, both or neither driver was at fault and that decides liability for the claim but doesn't mean anyone broke the law. Must be hard to live with I suppose.

:/

wtaf

Purr as they should

Most be so frustrating for women who have worked so hard all their life to be the top of the game and are beaten because somebody has superior hormones for the sport and haven’t had to try as hard to be at the top because their bodies enable them to perform better and there’s nothing the born female can do about it, even if she just trains harder..

But who cares about namby-pamby concepts like "research" or "women" amirite?

Why? It's not fair on women, nor is if safe for them.

PLS not yall pretending to care about women’s sports to hate on trans people

It's not about sports, it's about women. It's not safe or fair for women to play in contact sports against males.