I think you're choosing to purposefully misunderstand the intent of 'we' to push a point that doesn't really work.

'We' in this context is not referring to us as individuals but as the UK as an entity throughout the centuries.

Again, to go back to the WW2 example. One day, Nazi Germany's atrocities will be as distant in the past as the slave trade is to us, but do you think that Germany's stance on teaching the horrors of WW2 and what Germany did to their kids will change? I doubt they ever will, because it's important to learn from history. The good and the bad.

The problem with so many people in this country is that they refuse to engage in reality when it comes to the past. We're heroes of the world, the empire was the greatest thing that ever existed and we never did anything wrong ever. None of that is true, and we committed atrocity after atrocity. Just because we, as individuals, weren't born during those times doesn't mean that we, as a nation, should pretend that history that paints us in a bad light is fiction or that it no longer matters.

It matters to those who still live with the impact of the empire generations later.

As with anything there's a lot more to it than the black and white (literally, there are entire degree courses on Empire/Colonialism that I imagine still barely scratch the surface. It will always be the case that real history is far more complex than the buzz topics and phrases... And the most simple reality is that human history is incredibly murky. We've not been very good to each other.

LOOSELY though - it's very difficult to take the stance that the British Empire (or any other empire) was in any way a good or benevolent thing... Empires from the beginning of history to right now have ultimately been about selfish resource hoarding by wealthy people, to the detriment of pretty much everyone else, but affecting some far more than others.

Its also a pretty spectacularly ill considered take the stance that "Britain heroic" for being one of the first to outlaw slavery or for making efforts to help end it in other places too. I mean yes, they did do those things, but ... They wouldn't have been able to "heroically" stop trading slaves if they'd never traded slaves in the first place, and making amends by utilising the Royal Navy to help stop slavers wasn't heroic either, it was really the least they could do at the time as part of making amends.

Imagine someone keeping a human locked in their basement for years, and then one night having an epiphany and letting them go the next day... Would anyone say "Wow a hero!!". It seems unlikely. And if that person dedicated the rest of their life to getting other people out of basements that would be the right thing - but really the least they could do. And you wouldn't expect the person who had been in their basement to say, "You know what? You're actually an OK guy!".

Then there's the idea that the Empire "brought civilisation" to the world which of course, it didn't. It brought capitalism to the world, and people who equate capitalism with civilisation might see it that way... But it really all rests on that old premise that before the Empire brought order, people in colonial areas were "Savages" with no culture when of course that wasn't the case at all, it was just different culture, and thus rejected as being culture at all.

This is a good video if you have a spare 25 minutes.

It's by Carl Benjamin aka Sargon, that's the guy who did the rape joke about Jess Phillips. So I fully expect some to totally dismiss it with phrases like "I don't listen to bigots" And that's perfectly fine, everyone is free to be ignorant if they wish to be. I ain't forcing you to watch.

He does this video in response to something Frankie Boyle wrote, slagging of Britain (Dezzy esque). So he spends the first couple of minutes of the video talking about Frankie Boyle. After that he gives a fantastic take on slavery and the slave trade.

Worth a watch, I recommend it.

To quote him at the end of this video, speaking directly to Frankie Boyle. "Frankie, you live in a World without slavery because of Britain"

You can watch this a different way. There's many YouTube vloggers that have done reaction videos to this Carl Benjamin video. So you can watch it along with them and see their take on it too.






Here are some Americans reacting to it, watch along with them if you find that way more interesting.

The dead sailors didnt profit from it, or create it. They died for the cause of ending it all though.

Well I've always thought that Britain is a pretty good country to live in and grow up in.

The fact the the likes of Dezzy is allowed to just call it the most horrible things tells you how great it is. He won't appreciate it until the Globalists fully take over.

And they wouldn't have died ending it if we didn't basically create it.

I’m moving to Australia next year and can safely say the only thing I’m going to miss is my family. This country is the pits

In some respects you have a point. There are elements that are "the pits" as you call it.

Australia also has it's bad points though. As I showed you during Covid 19 - 21. Bleeding government of their's were shooting at the citizens for legally protesting.

Yeah cool.

It’s still a better way of life and paradise compared to this hell hole

Agree with all of this!

Not your friends?
I'm no major fan of this country but I have lived overseas and its not quite rhe Mecca its made out to be. Same ****, different place comes to mind. Everywhere has its issues, history and rubbish parts.

You make wherever you the best you can make it, no place is perfect.

:joker:


Having lived in Oz, its no different

A lot of my friends will visit whereas a lot of my family wouldn’t.

I’ve tried to make the best of things. My prospects are far greater moving down under than they ever will be here.

i've travelled extensively in my time, even living abroad for several years. The satisfaction that you get is directly related to the people around you. Things like climate follow close behind, but who runs the state and government is way, way down the list

Doesn’t Australia have very strict rules on Immigration? Ones that the UK ary trying to emulate ....I have to laugh :laugh:

What’s so funny?

Ah cool.

My friend went out there 14 years ago....he has loved it. Hope it all goes well for you.

What part are you going to Glenn?

Are you a nurse or something?:)

I think we have a kind of tourist's eye about other countries - we see all the nice parts from the outside, but people living in those countries have to deal - like here - with all the minutiae of politics and the news that might cause division and upset.

Domestic issues in other countries don't usually make the news or have interest to people here.

Very true we have had a place in Spain and while it’s lovely to visit..getting anything bureaucratic done is a nightmare…l



I think it can also work in reverse and show you how good things are and how much is done for minorities in this country like info messages in different languages….and free translators provided if you go for appt …be prepared to find your own and pay for your own in Spain

That said travel broadens the mind so there is that :)

It is somewhat ironic Glenn... Australia is culturally known to be both more racist and more homophobic than the UK. They're extremely strict on immigration and they take very few asylum seekers. It is sunnier though :shrug:

Canada is the real GOAT for nurses though, they have (the equivalent of) something like a £75k average salary. Property prices are through the roof though. We've flirted with moving abroad as my wife could work more or less anywhere and make more than in the UK, and I can literally work from anywhere that has a laptop and an internet connection.

Teen doesn't want to leave her rubbish pals at her rubbish school though :joker:.

Brisbane. My partner has family out there.

No

Best of luck with it, it's handy to have people out there while you get yourselves set up.

We’re a bit spoilt for choice especially with accommodation. My other half has a guaranteed job when we go. He spent a couple of years out there working.

Ah that's brilliant, it will take the pressure off a bit. Life in the sunshine sounds good (especially this time of the year on this side of the world!)

YOu would not cope with the spiders Neem

I've been to Australia and I didn't meet a single Spider there :idc:

that you know of ........

They were pre warned

Indeed .

Correct it is sunnier. Work life balance is also superior to this country. And it’s something I want to do so it’s not really for anyone to criticise

I'm not criticising the move and wish you well, I'm not even particularly complaining about describing Britain in bad terms either... and not saying that Aus is MASSIVELY worse than the UK by any measure... just that in terms of comparing righty/authoritarian government styles, Australia really doesn't have any moral high ground over the UK. They've always had some of the worlds strictest migration policies, and they've (frankly) always heavily prioritised White Europeans. The UK govts are often heavily criticised for suggesting policies that fall WAY short of what's been in place in Australia for decades.

So really only criticising that the idea of moving to AUS because the UK is a political cess pit is like moving into the toilet bowl because the urinal was too smelly.

If you just meant because so much of the UK is literally dull/grey/grim/falling apart a bit then fair enough :joker:.

Stop moving the goalposts.