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the truth 17-10-2013 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherie (Post 6434588)
Agreed.




How do you know that they did it for YEARS before and after :suspect:

the mccanns admitted it on crimewatch....did you not watch the show? them and all their friends did it

Niamh. 17-10-2013 02:31 PM

Back on topic please

the truth 17-10-2013 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesheriff443 (Post 6434735)
you go away on holiday to relax and in some cases you let your guard down, and this is all that happened!, they where a hundred and fifty feet away from those kids and where checking on them, they where in a group, all doing the same thing! and that old saying saftey in numbers!,

what's more disturbing to me is that members on here where less vocal to condemn, baby p's mother and her early release for torturing her child on a daily basis than they are to condemn the mccanns.

this is just turned into a witch hunt, and the advert that springs to mind while reading this thread is the one that says, the internet you is better than the real you.

you conveniently forgot to add they were 3 babies, they were abroad, it was further than 150 feet, they had no view of the apartment, also that they left the doors unlocked and supposedly gave the kids sedatives too. sorry but when you choose to ignore these factors which ultimately lead to the death of a baby girl, then your post is meaningless

Jesus. 17-10-2013 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the truth (Post 6434902)
you conveniently forgot to add they were 3 babies, they were abroad, it was further than 150 feet, they had no view of the apartment, also that they left the doors unlocked and supposedly gave the kids sedatives too. sorry but when you choose to ignore these factors which ultimately lead to the death of a baby girl, then your post is meaningless

I'm pretty sure that the twins would have been tested for sedatives, so if they were clear, then the chances are that Maddie was clear also. Especially considering it was one of the twins that had a problem getting to sleep in the first place.

Niamh. 17-10-2013 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus. (Post 6434903)
I'm pretty sure that the twins would have been tested for sedatives, so if they were clear, then the chances are that Maddie was clear also. Especially considering it was one of the twins that had a problem getting to sleep in the first place.

Why would they have been? Is that normal in a case of a missing child, to test the siblings for sedatives?

the truth 17-10-2013 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus. (Post 6434903)
I'm pretty sure that the twins would have been tested for sedatives, so if they were clear, then the chances are that Maddie was clear also. Especially considering it was one of the twins that had a problem getting to sleep in the first place.

chances are? we will never know, because they cant test maddie because her parents , left the doors open in an apartment at night in a foreign country with 3 babies inside? so she either fell , walked out, was taken or whatever, due to grossly negligent parenting at best and at worst\? goodness only knows. they admitted they have done this for years, they also admitted theyd used sedatives on madeline before, she also had trouble sleeping....could she have taken one too many? could they have made her drowsy and fallen over? why are we too scared to even ask?

also the fact their story has often changed. the tv interviews are utterly worthless as there is no interrogation at all. If this expensive investigation is to be all consuming , they should be treated as suspects and grilled thoroughly.

the only victim here is madeleine.

chuff me dizzy 17-10-2013 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 6434907)
Why would they have been? Is that normal in a case of a missing child, to test the siblings for sedatives?

Portuguese police wanted to drug test twins after McCanns said they must have been drugged ,Kate,Gerry refused to let them do it ,they also refused to show bank account details and Maddies medical records

the truth 17-10-2013 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy (Post 6434913)
Portuguese police wanted to drug test twins after McCanns said they must have been drugged ,Kate,Gerry refused to let them do it ,they also refused to show bank account details and Maddies medical records

have they shown them yet?

Jesus. 17-10-2013 02:52 PM

Considering they were suspects, they didn't half get away with telling the police what they could/couldn't do.

Lee. 17-10-2013 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy (Post 6434913)
Portuguese police wanted to drug test twins after McCanns said they must have been drugged ,Kate,Gerry refused to let them do it ,they also refused to show bank account details and Maddies medical records

Eh? Police don't need permission to access such records during an investigation do they?

Kizzy 17-10-2013 03:05 PM

They were only suspects in portugal, not here I think.

Niamh. 17-10-2013 03:06 PM

Also i don't think they were officially considered suspects till quite awhile after the disappearance

Z 17-10-2013 03:13 PM

They refused to let the twins be tested for months on end, presumably a stalling tactic to get it out of their system. I think you have to remember that they are doctors; they had quite a lot to lose if it transpired that they abused their position as doctors to sedate their children so they could have a quiet holiday. I think that's why they're so keen to deflect blame off themselves over any aspect of the incident.

Are either of them working, incidentally? Have they returned to being doctors?

chuff me dizzy 17-10-2013 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the truth (Post 6434914)
have they shown them yet?

They had it done privetely and TOLD the police it came back negative :shocked: 11 months later ( the time it takes for drugs to leave hair ) Another little bit of odd behaviour this group consisted of many Drs, all well educated people, but when they finally got round to ringing police ,after concocting alibis,deleting phone records , and the police arrived to find 5a ,packed with all tapas lot, Warner staff, thinking that Kate claims she knew instantly Maddie had be taken ,thus contaminating the crime scene

chuff me dizzy 17-10-2013 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zee (Post 6434964)
They refused to let the twins be tested for months on end, presumably a stalling tactic to get it out of their system. I think you have to remember that they are doctors; they had quite a lot to lose if it transpired that they abused their position as doctors to sedate their children so they could have a quiet holiday. I think that's why they're so keen to deflect blame off themselves over any aspect of the incident.

Are either of them working, incidentally? Have they returned to being doctors?

ALL true, Gerry is back at work, Kate is not

chuff me dizzy 17-10-2013 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 6434949)
They were only suspects in portugal, not here I think.

The whole case in Portugal was helped alongside Uk police who were also deeply involved ,BOTH force came to the same conclusion ,it was Uk Home office crime advisor Lee Rainbow who told the Portuguese police to look at the parents

Jesus. 17-10-2013 03:25 PM

They were made Aguido's 4 months after her disappearance, I believe. I'm pretty sure sedatives remain in the body for at least that long (but I could be wrong about that fact - I do know that other drugs do, though).

So 4 months after Maddie's disappearance, and with the McCanns as suspects, they were able to dictate to the police what they could and couldn't access, and refuse to have the twins tested? This is what the story is?

Cherie 17-10-2013 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the truth (Post 6434897)
the mccanns admitted it on crimewatch....did you not watch the show? them and all their friends did it

I wasn't glued to it, it has to be said. We know they and their friends did it on that holiday and previously, but did they confirm that they continue to leave their children unsupervised?

Can I ask Chuff what exactly is the reason this internet group that you are a part of was set up?

Vicky. 17-10-2013 03:34 PM

Sedatives remain in your body for months? Never knew that. Thought it would be like..a week.

Z 17-10-2013 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky. (Post 6435013)
Sedatives remain in your body for months? Never knew that. Thought it would be like..a week.

Traces are still in your hair follicles etc, like how dope tests are carried out but can catch people out from months previously.

Niamh. 17-10-2013 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus. (Post 6434997)
They were made Aguido's 4 months after her disappearance, I believe. I'm pretty sure sedatives remain in the body for at least that long (but I could be wrong about that fact - I do know that other drugs do, though).

So 4 months after Maddie's disappearance, and with the McCanns as suspects, they were able to dictate to the police what they could and couldn't access, and refuse to have the twins tested? This is what the story is?

They left Portugal straight after becoming suspects I think ( I might be wrong about that though)

Jesus. 17-10-2013 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 6435019)
They left Portugal straight after becoming suspects I think ( I might be wrong about that though)

Being able to leave Portugal would have been a condition of bail, and it would have needed to be cleared by the Portuguese justice system. If they wanted to test the children/access their bank accounts, they would have had their passports kept away from them.

MTVN 17-10-2013 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 6434881)
The shortened version is basically, the McCanns originally claimed all windows and doors were locked when they went out and at 10pm what alerted Kate to a problem was the bedroom door slamming shut because of the bedroom window being open because of that she then realised Maddie was not in her bed, this open window is apparently the reason kate immediately thought Maddie had been taken by someone. They told friends immediately after that the abductor must have "jemmied" the shutters on the window. But after the cops examined the room, they concluded that the window had not been tampered with and showed no signs of being opened from the outside. The McCanns then changed their story to being that they'd left the patio door open but that doesn't explain the window

Spoiler:

What was locked and what was open? Was there an 'abductor'?

To answer these questions, we need first to look at what was said by the McCanns to family and friends in the immediate aftermath of Madeleine's disappearance.

Jon Corner, as quoted above, clearly states that Kate had told him that they had left the apartment locked while they were having their meal. In other words both doors, front and patio, were locked.

Trish Cameron recalled that she received a call late that same night from Gerry and she recounted: "Kate went back at 10 o'clock to check. The front door was lying open, the window had been tampered with, the shutters had been jemmied open or whatever you call it and Madeleine was missing... They think someone must have come in the window and gone out of the front door with Madeleine."

Philomena McCann, Gerry's sister said on 04 May: "Some people may ask why they left the children alone in the apartment but it was locked and they had a full view of the front door and they were checking every half hour."

Jill Renwick, a family friend, told GMTV on 04 May: "She's obviously been taken as she couldn't have gone out on her own and the shutters had been forced open."

The clear implication in Jill Renwick's statement is that she couldn't have gone out on her own because the front door and patio doors were locked. Otherwise Madeleine, as an active 4 yr-old, could surely have got out through 'open' patio doors very easily and on her own. She was clearly too small to attempt a climbed escape through a closed and shuttered window.

However, police tests showed the heavy metal shutter had not been forced up from the outside, so must have been pulled open from inside the room.

Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa, spokesman for the investigation, confided in British former Chief Inspector Albert Kirby that neither the windows nor their shutters had been tampered with.

What must be appreciated, at this point, is that these comments, from closest family and friends - the first to be contacted, are not Chinese whispers. It is not a case that the McCanns rang one person, who got the message wrong, and this got passed on to everyone else. These are four people who received independent telephone calls from Gerry or Kate, in the hours following the 'abduction', and made independent statements. Yet, the statements all recount the same story. The McCanns' apartment was locked, so the 'abductor' must have gained access via the jemmied shutters and left via the front door.

But this begs the question: How did the abductor get into the apartment if the patio doors were locked and the shutters, as attending officers quickly assessed, had not been forced from the outside?

There now appear to be two problems with the recounted version of events. How did the abductor get in and why was the window open? And it's at that point the story changes, in a crucial way.

It is suddenly revealed that the patio doors to the rear of the apartment were left unlocked. This immediately resolves the problem of how the 'abductor' entered the apartment but it makes the decision to leave their three babies alone, inside an exposed and unlocked apartment, seem almost unbelievable, not to mention grossly negligent.

So, to further justify and soften the decision to leave the doors unlocked, it is 'revealed' that the McCanns and all their friends on the holiday left their patio doors open throughout the evenings for fear of fire.

They also embark on a series of interviews where they repeatedly assert that they are responsible parents and that their decision to leave the children alone was quite normal behaviour. Gerry goes so far as to describe it as no different to leaving them in the house when you go into the garden.

The second problem that now faces the McCanns is that they have committed themselves to an 'open window and shutter' story. Indeed, it is quoted as the very reason Kate knew something was wrong because when she says she opened the patio doors at 10.00pm, the bedroom door slammed shut as a result of the wind running though the apartment.

So, if the abductor clearly didn't enter through the bedroom window, why was it open? The McCanns hadn't opened it, so there could be only one reason. The 'abductor' must have used it to escape from.

It is also vaguely claimed that the front door has curious locks and can only be opened with a key, further strengthening the bizarre decision of the 'abductor' to escape through a window, carrying a child who would surely have woken up.

But why, with access to a front door and an apparently unlocked patio door, would the 'abductor' complicate things, and heighten the risk of detection, by clambering through a window with a heavy metal shutter?

This idea of a complicated 'key-only exit' front door can surely be discounted, as no apartment would be granted a fire certificate if you could only escape through the front door if you had the key. Mark Warner would surely not install doors that could leave them culpable in the event of a fire.

So, we now have the McCanns' insistance that the 'abductor', or 'predator' as he is now referred, was laying in wait, and entered through the open patio doors between checks on the children.

So what can we make of the way the story changed so quickly?

There is only one conclusion to be drawn.

If the patio doors were locked, as Kate and Gerry independently told Brian Healy, Jon Corner, Trish Cameron, Philomena McCann and Jill Renwick, and the window shutters had clearly not been 'jemmied', then there can have been no way into the apartment that evening. And therefore, by deduction, no abductor.

And that, is a very disturbing conclusion.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id21.html

Hmm according to this, which links to the Portuguese police files, the McCann's said from the start that the patio doors were closed but not locked, and somewhere else on the site it gives a pretty detailed abduction theory which gives a few reasons why the window might have been opened:

Quote:

The open window

Regarded by McCann sceptics as a “red flag” and an attempt by the McCanns to stage an intruder.

We believe there are several reasons why the window might have been opened by an abductor but not actually climbed through:-

As an emergency exit in case he found himself cornered by Gerry McCann (as per above theory)

To check whether the coast was clear since the path was not clearly visible from the recessed front door

To pass a child or stolen goods to an accomplice

As a considered exit route, but then abandoned as impractical

To detract from the fact that the intruder had a key – deflect attention from the person who obtained it (perhaps a member of staff)

To allow the smell of a sedating chemical to dissipate more quickly.

Niamh. 17-10-2013 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jesus. (Post 6435023)
Being able to leave Portugal would have been a condition of bail, and it would have needed to be cleared by the Portuguese justice system. If they wanted to test the children/access their bank accounts, they would have had their passports kept away from them.

I thought you only needed bail if you were charged with something?

Jesus. 17-10-2013 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 6435028)
I thought you only needed bail if you were charged with something?

You could well be right about that, but allowing them to return home would have definitely been the choice of the Portuguese legal system, and not G&K. There would have also been conditions placed on allowing them home, and failure to comply would have been like tearing up the agreement. They'd have been escorted back to Portugal in police custody.


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