Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 8547233)

Good gracious the insults fly on this thread at times,totally unnecessary.
There are misleading statements coming from all sides in this from the Politicians the in camp and the out camp.

People have the right to feel strongly for in or out without getting insulted for goodness sake.
There is no need for attacks as to political leanings or words like ****** to be used to make any points.

Honestly,it is ridiculous,the 'in' camp only need to point out how things are now,the securities, the success and the stronger we likely are in the EU, despite its many and I mean many failings.
The 'out' camp instead of attacking people as being on the left or otherwise,all they need to do is avoid all that and explain in full with 'substantiation of same', what the UK would be like out of the EU.

Instead of going on about old arguments, that are null and void that is what people undecided need to know from the out camp.
Just to make my point as to old arguments.

I agree with Kirk that the Conservative govt in the early 70s took us into Europe without asking the voters.
I agree that was wrong.

It happened however and had they not,then Harold Wilson and Labour would have likely done so after 1974.
The polling Kirk stated, had a healthy vote against going into Europe,then as now the polls are meaningless since after only 2 years in Europe and even a re-negotiation of sorts already needed to be done, the Nation voted by almost 2 to 1 to 'stay in',in Labour's referendum on the issue.

I was talking to 4 people who are totally undecided and are sick of the whole thing already.They listen to both sides and are getting no info as to what the really need to make a decision.
They have stopped listening to UKIP as they say all they go on about is immigration.

They want the picture, as near guaranteed picture as should be possible, if things are true and right from the out camp, as to the future of the UK out of the EU.
Nothing has been given as to such assurances so the likelihood for them is to stay with what they know for sure now in the EU.

If all the out camp are going to do is insult others of a different view and political leaning to them, then they will lose the argument bigtime.

I cannot say what the UK would be like out of the EU because I have seen and heard nothing to convince of any claims being right.
Statistics mean nothing, we know a good number of the EU statistics, statistics can say whatever a particular viewpoint wants then to say.
I don't know who said it but is was once said, there were 'lies,damned lies and statistics'.
Or words to that effect.

To change over from something, people have to be assured the change they are making is for the better of all and Country,if that cannot be shown and substantiated with right and true facts,then for me change is best avoided.
We have been in Europe for over 40 years now as a partner in this process.
If David Cameron is to be believed he has got in his deal, a fact of no further political union by the UK in the EU.

If the out camp can prove him wrong on that,do so if not then he should be afforded the benefit of the doubt on it since he did the re-negotiation.
Those in his party attacking and insulting him from 'the' out side, make the whole issue look ugly and they also paint a very bad picture indeed of being out of the EU too by that nonsense.
he is presenting his deal to the voters,he believes he did his very best and got the best he could.
I cannot bear the man but on this I applaud his work on this issue and believe him right.

I also do believe fully, that he has started a chain of events in the EU that will surface as more change within the EU is demanded now in light of what he has begun.
That for me is another reason why I will be voting to stay put and take no risks whatsoever.

Originally Posted by arista (Post 8550768)

Love Boris AM
on Marr telling him to Stop the BBC Claptrap

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/...7265133631.jpg

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 8550815)

So what's new?...

Originally Posted by Alf (Post 8550856)

The Head of British Chambers of Commerce suspended for saying we'd be better off out of EU.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ow-reports-say

Originally Posted by arista (Post 8550864)

The CBI
sacked there speaker
because he spoke from
a private matter about leaving Europe


He was not speaking about the CBI view.

Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 8550869)

My comment was a response to the comment about BOJO.

Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 8550865)

Perhaps the BCC would have been better to have reprimanded him rather than suspension, however they have put themselves in a position of neutrality on the EU issue therefore all connected to it should be held to that.
He spoke out breaking that condition so he asked for it really.

Keeping his views to himself and those around him would have been fine but speaking out publicly is in effect disobeying rules put in place.

Originally Posted by Alf (Post 8550875)

But what of his opinion that we should vote out?

Should we take his opinion as something to think about? or something to be ignored?

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed (Post 8552825)

Whilst Boris is sharpening his proverbial knife to stick in the backs of Cameron and Osborne, I look forward to Sadiq Khan slipping into the mayor of London's seat.

Boris thinks he's the next PM and that's the only reason he's positioned himself with the "OUT" side in the EU Referendum. If we remain 'IN' which we probably will, Boris can blame the treachery on Cameron and Osborne and make a pitch for the leadership, which will be backed by the hard right. I doubt Boris wants to be PM if we come 'OUT' as the long years of disengagement from the EU are bound to be very harsh indeed and the Tory seat, after an initial period of right wing euphoria, will become a very uncomfortable place indeed.

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed (Post 8553003)

Sorry Joey but I don't think Cameron's going to be in a stronger position whichever way this vote falls because of the upheaval going on in the Tory right. The present government is split right down the middle and its only going to get worse from here.

Originally Posted by arista (Post 8553286)

Love Boris on SkyNewsHD
he said the Message telling his staff off
is not longer legal.
He then said its removed from History
as he took his bike into Parliament


What a Guy

http://media.skynews.com/media/image...-1-736x414.jpg


http://news.sky.com/story/1655721/bo...scinded-kaduuk
Video Clip.

[Boris Johnson has said he has "wiped from history"
a 'back Boris on the EU or keep your views
to yourself' edict on City Hall staff.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed (Post 8553230)

I know a good few conservatives who are considering the out vote atm. The only thing that's stopping them (the ones I know) is this bandwaggon of petty nationalists and xenophobics that are riding at the front of the 'OUT' chariot.

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed (Post 8553230)

Cameron will be blamed for bringing this about in the first place. I believe he's damned if we do and damned if we don't. The conservative party are tearing themselves apart and are now so viscerally divided that its become an open and very public warfare. The awkwardness is not going to go away any time soon.

I know a good few conservatives who are considering the out vote atm. The only thing that's stopping them (the ones I know) is this bandwaggon of petty nationalists and xenophobics that are riding at the front of the 'OUT' chariot. I had a very interesting conversation with a conservative friend of mine regarding what he thought about the present party divide and he told me that a lot of conservative MP's don't sit comfortably with this present government and blame Cameron's leadership for moving further and further away from what conservatism stands for. He said its likely the 'blue' parliamentary Brexit supporters just want to contribute to Cameron's and Osbornes downfall and squash this present leadership, because if they wait until the next election, the conservatives won't get in. Installing a new Tory PM would at least give the conservative party a fighting chance.

I say, if politicians within Cameron's own party are prepared to take such desperate measures to repair what's left of the conservative party, then things must be bad. I suspect that what we are seeing here is a modern version of the Roman senators conspiracy with Julius Ceasor.