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I don't like Boris Johnson tactics. We live in a democracy. Parliament should have a say. I really hope he doesn't get his way. He's not fit to be prime minister.
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Boris is banking on the electorate to deliver no deal for him, any ‘bump’ in the road can then be blamed on the public getting their wish
Get out and vote this time, who for in the opposition is the conundrum though |
I think Brexit could be delayed until January.
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:laugh2:
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give us a referendum rather than an election if it really is over to you Britain :pipe:
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Very fairly corbyn who for months has asked for an election has now stated there must be an extention before an election, to remove the chance of a cliff edge brexit before a GE. But lets see how the media spin this decision.
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What angered me the most was mogg saying that the bill was unconstitutional while he and his cronies treated the HoC with utter contempt. Him sprawled disinterested across the seats was not a good advert for the cabinets position and I think he will live to regret it
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No its General Election with Clear Brexit sides If Labour Win they claim to have another referendum. Once they are in Power |
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saying he would set a date then change it in order to get No Deal through, The media has explained that . Today is Johnson PM's first Question Time. |
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Nobody trusts the clown And then maybe a vote of no confidence or maybe an election The clown overplayed his hand Sign of the times |
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Yes it also has to get through the House Of Lords before Friday end. |
I would hope the more reasoned and decent voters.
Will not support this bullying type of government. Even the Cabinet don't seem to talk to each other. That dreadful woman Leadsom interviewed indicated no action would be taken imminently against those voting for Conservative MP Oliver Letwin's bill. Then a few minutes later they were all being expelled. No reasoned voter can surely support that type of bullying tactics by a Prime Minister. Had Theresa May done this, when a good number of this Cabinet, voted against her wishes. The said Boris Johnson couldn't have run for the Conservative leadership. I really hope Labour and the SNP join the Lib Dems to not give Johnson his way as to a general election vote, if he does, tonight. It has to come but I agree after all has been done to stop a no deal scenario. Johnson may do well to recall too. A past Conservative leader in very different times admittedly. Namely Heath, who in the 70s, called an election under a who governs Britain type of banner too. Who then lost then too. As for Rees- Mogg. His style of posture in such important and serious issues being debated, was pure ignorance. He'd probably be the first to look down on anyone, thinking them uneducated, if he came across it anywhere else. I believe more in the Country want to leave with a good deal or remain. I think around 35 to possibly 40% could support no deal. How those votes are distributed is the problem. If the Cons take around 30% and the Brexit party around 10%. Then split votes between Labour and Lib Dems could hand a small overall majority to the Cons. Or leave them largest party. If we had PR the issue is easier. The Lib Dems under this archaic electoral first past the post system. Have to really get high in the votes to get anywhere near leading the field in seats won. The way Labour and Con votes stack up, even being in the twenties as to percentage, floods seats more easily to those two Parties. I'd expect another hung Parliament probably. I would love Labour in a general election to put forward PR for the future as a policy. End this then possible build up of extreme elements taking over in government. From whatever side of politics it shows itself. |
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Far-sighted editorial in the Guardian
The defeat of Boris Johnson’s government by the opposition and 21 of his own MPs is the first shot in a battle for the soul of the Conservative party. Six weeks after he took office, the prime minister looks certain to be forced by law to break his promise to leave the European Union by 31 October, “do or die”. The implications for the Tory party are likely to be more significant than for Mr Johnson. The rebels will be purged from the party, by having the whip withdrawn and being prevented from standing as Tory candidates in the next election. The argument over Brexit raging in the Tory party might see the kind of split that followed Robert Peel’s 1846 repeal of the Corn Laws. Mr Johnson acts as if he wants such a schism, to seal his hostile takeover of the Tory party. The scale and pace of his power grab might astonish outsiders, but no one within the party should be surprised. In June the votes of 92,000 Tory members elected Mr Johnson, a no-dealer, to the party leadership. A month later he made it clear that only no-dealers could sit round the cabinet table. Mr Johnson has lost his majority in parliament, but he has strengthened his hold on his party. Now the Conservative party will be shorn of critics, allowing Mr Johnson to campaign in a forthcoming election – if he can engineer one – with a pledge to reverse any law that prevents a no-deal Brexit on 31 October. For Mr Johnson the incarnation of the Tory party under Theresa May was weak. Weak in spirit, in manner and in appearance. This would not do, he reasoned, for a country that was hurt, angry and scared. Mr Johnson’s response was to adopt the Trumpian tactic of goading opponents to energise his supporters. The prime minister wants to whip up as much indignation among leave voters as he can. It is a ploy to exacerbate grievances so that he can fight this base’s corner in a flag-waving general election. This must happen before the consequences of a no-deal exit become obvious. To achieve this, Mr Johnson’s strategy with the European Union has been to set out conditions to renegotiate the withdrawal agreement that cannot be met. That would make a damaging no-deal Brexit inevitable. The prime minister could then attach the blame for this outcome to his foes inside parliament and on the continent – hence his provocative and shameful descriptions of his opponents as collaborators who would “surrender” the UK’s sovereignty. This unholy mixture of political opportunism and misguided ideology has been driving Britain towards a geopolitical precipice. If Britain leaves the EU without a deal, there will be economic chaos; those who suffer most will be the very people who voted for Brexit as an act of defiance. It is no surprise that Mr Johnson now talks about cutting the cost of living, aware no doubt that the Brexit-fuelled depreciation of the pound disproportionately affects the poor by pushing up the prices of food and fuel. Mr Johnson’s pitch will be an update of the populism that William Hague road-tested in 2001: that the people are being betrayed by a “liberal elite” who wilfully ignore their concerns about foreigners and the threat posed by the EU, which unattended would see the UK becoming “a foreign land”. Yet even Mr Hague did not believe that pooling sovereignty with European partners would undermine our own and remove our right to cut regulation or get the best out of trade deals with the rest of the world. Mr Hague wanted a culture war with Europe, not an economic one. Mr Johnson wants both. This is how far the baleful virus of Europhobic populism has spread. It will keep the nation bitterly divided, even where considerable agreement once existed. Mr Johnson intuitively understands that turmoil will sustain his premiership – to the extent that there is no part of government that he will not burn down on behalf of the governed to keep himself in office. That is why he must be stopped. |
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If you're in Scotland vote SNP, so if this crazy government wins again, you can get yourselves out of the UK and back into the EU, or if you're in England you vote labour. The so-called liberal democrats supported and backed all of the worst tory policies, from austerity, to fracking, to bedroom tax; all propped up by the lib dems. Don't let the media lies about Corbyn fool you. |
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I am Honest |
if there were an election we are in completely uncharted territory. No-one trusts the tories or labour to run the country, the lib dems, the greens etc have been completely ineffective.
If there is no brexit before the election, the brexit party will stand and will get a sizeable chunk of votes. We have no idea how an election would turn out and what side of the argument would prevail. My feeling is it will be split pretty evenly again no matter what arguments came up in the runup. People are entrenched in their beliefs, there wont be any undecided voters. If it achieves anything short term, the problem won't go away whichever way it drops |
So let's get this straight if it's possible to find a policy with all the Labour U turns. For all his career Corbyn has been vehemently opposed to the EU, now he wants to remain in it. For the last three to four years Corbyn has been calling for a General Election and now they get their chance they don't want one. They wanted a deal and yet voted against the May surrender document, three times.
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