Change of tack for Wombai as per usual. Make everything to be like a personal attack as always. Just to distract from the subject in hand when she has ran out of any credible arguments she thought she had in the first place.

And, as it happens, here I am munching down a plate of waffles :blush:.

The crisps or toaster variety?

The frozen Birds Eye variety haha.

Haven't had them in ages. Now I'm hungry! Tea and cig time.

Maybe you are just being very pc about this!

It's not being PC it's just the facts...

Nah Wombai, you've lost the run of yourself here. Alcoholics don't have a say.... it's a self-destructive illness and to think of them merely as people who should have known better is making a mockery of the pain and anguish that many suffer as a result of it.

PC? Jesus christ. It's not being PC, it's just fact. Are you being serious? Yeahhhh! Those people aint sick, they are just silly! Look at how un PC I am being everyone!

Edit : Beaten to it :(.

I don't need a credible argument - I have an opinion - that is based on some experience! I wonder how many of those having sarcastic little digs have any experience of their own! People have different experiences - and my opinions are based on mine! There is no right or wrong in this! Some people just like to think that those who think differently are wrong! I expressed an honest opinion - just because it wasn't a popular one - does not justify the aggressive response from some!

Actually the NHS would tell you that you ARE wrong.

Your opinion is somewhat handicapped though. You said you worked on wards with alcoholics. That's bound to turn anyone sour, understandably so, cleaning up piss and taking abuse from them.

It's an opinion clouded by your profession. And as the topic title asks are they illneses/diseases, and they are, opinions need not apply.

Also, your posts I notice got slightly more compassionate as they went along. Your initial 'opinion' was misguided to say the least :

Very vague, cruel, sweeping statement that people were obviously going to have issue with.

Well when you have seen really sick people, people in pain with cancer etc, being upset and disturbed by disruptive, rude, aggresive people - with drink problems - maybe you might see things from a different view - but then again!

Actually I wouldn't view things differently, because that has nothing to do with the root problem. Of course they are going to act like wankers. They are alcoholics.

You can't contrast them with fucking cancer patients. It's hardly as if any of us are condoning the harrasment of cancer patients!

I'm sure you will agree that if we put as much attention into hospitals as we did certain other things nevermind ward, alcoholics would be on a different floor to the cancer patients.

This is also testament to my last point that your opinion is biased by what you see from your end in the workplace.

It may have been a sweeping statment - but one I know a lot of people agree with! The moral outrage - from you and one or two others is just laughable!

I doubt a lot of people would agree. Just seems a pretty narrow minded view.

It's not really Wombai. You're wrong here... totally wrong. I've seen what alcoholism and anorexia can do to people.

Why do you assume other people have not seen things like this?

Just because they don't have Cancer doesn't mean they aren't really sick in their own rights. They deserve help too even if it isn't in the same way.

Good for them. The world will always have ignorant people. I wonder do they know they are wrong. After all, Alcoholism and Anorexia are illnesses. Unless you want to disagree with every expert body in the field in fucking existence.

As for the moral outrage from me and others being laughable? How so? We have pefectly acceptable, valid, correct points.

It really does speak for everything you are starting to stand for on this forum that you see fit to not reply to the majority of my post and simply wave away all our arguments as 'laughable' because they disagree with your own misguided opinion on the matter.

What's laughable about them? We had every right to offer up a rebuttal to what was an extremely narrow minded, scientifically invalid, potentially offensive, sweeping comment that you made in your original post.

No doubt this will somehow end up as you being the victim of our combined forum tyranny.

Give me a fucking break. Really.

You know I value your opinion Setanta - but as I said - different experiences, different opinions! I am not going to lie about my feelings to please others! People can't force people to think the way they do by aggressive put-downs and name-calling - it doesn't work like that!

I'm not being aggressive here though. It's just a fact that they're illnesses with the patients deserving compassion and understanding.

Your opinion is a wrong opinion though. For what you said there is a right and wrong answer and you are wrong!

Nobody called you any names. Like I expected you are playing the victim.

I appreciate that you have opinions formed from the workplace, really - I do, but there is no room for these opinions in the greater domain of science and healthcare, both mental and physical!

Hence people will not speak up and state their opinions if they consider that they may not be popular ones on this forum - for fear of such an aggressive response from some posters! Free speech apparently is not so free - not on this forum! Makes a mockery of this being a debate forum!

It is not so much what you say, but the way you say it - you are just an aggressive twit who can think what the hell he likes - it doesn't bother me - as I know you don't speak for everyone!