No offence vesavius, but for someone who continually rambles on about people being evasive when they get into an argument with you, you don't seem very willing to properly defend your position either. Supergirth mentioned Josie once in the first line, the rest was a valid point made about Ben, but you chose to ignore it and dish out your usual offering of lazy ad-homs.

I will argue it happily when the point at hand isnt diluted with attempted deflections.

I have been making a clear point stating my position since the OP and have been very clear about the thread topic.

Your obviously trying to shift the argument to me now, rather then talking about the case in point. Naughty....

I'm not a fan of Ben, but I honestly thought his tirade against JJ was funny as hell. It's about time JJ got it back as good as he likes to give it.

On the subject of the actual tirade and its' personal nature, I try to put myself in the shoes of Ben. In a real life situation, I'd have never reacted the way that Ben did. However, if I'm locked in the BB house for a few weeks, cameras on me 24/7, living on an unpredictable food supply, probably being bored out of my gourd most of the time while having to listen to JJ's almost incessant whining (I only watch the daily show and not the LF and even in that small amount of time JJ grates on my nerves), then my stress levels are probably going to be through the roof and it's probably not going to take much to push my buttons to the point that I say something to the effect that Ben did. Especially when I'm rudely awoken and practically tumbled out of my bed with people laughing at me like hyenas.

So yeah, while I wouldn't condone what Ben said in a real world situation, in the confines of the BB house and its' environment, I totally understand why he'd react in such a way. As viewers, and not participants, it's really easy to judge these people and forget about how much of a stressful environment that house really is. And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be apologetic for Ben. I don't condone what he said, but I do understand how the stress may have gotten the best of him.

See guys?

THATS how you argue from Bens PoV in a clear non deflective way. Good post.

Just wanted to make that point seperatly. I will respond soon :P

Quoting mistake, fixed now.

I agree the tension, and everything else you say, got the best of him and he cracked, but what I am saying is that crack allowed us a valuable insight into the real person behind Ben's carefully constructed facade.

A waspish spiteful elitist snob.

You often see the truth of a man in argument and drink...


(Though I do agree it was great TV :joker: )

He could very well be what you describe, and while I agree with the sentiment that you often see the truth of a man in argument and drink, I don't feel that is always necessarily the case. It could be true in Ben's case as we've seen him talk behind people's backs before (Mario being one of those people).

It could also very well just be the case that he's just a bit fed up with JJ's behavior and just wanted to hurl some very hurtful insults toward him to get him to shut up. He can be very annoying at times and doesn't seem to know when to shut his yap. He kind of reminds me of a kid who will poke a dog with a stick over and over again until the dog turns around to bite him and then wonders why the dog bit him in the first place acting as if it was no fault of his own.

Ah well, Ben's got at least another week in the house. I'm sure if he is the type of person you think he is, he'll show his true colors again before it is over with hehe. I actually kind of hope he does, as that tirade was pretty entertaining lol.

I agree, I actually want him in the house. I might not like the guy, who he is under his political surface, or the way he chooses to play the game, but he is good TV.

Again and again he shows hs true colours, he has since the first week. I have no doubt he will do it again. No one, especially Ben, can pretend to be somone they arnt forever in that house :devil:

I don't defend JJ at all, I have a balanced view of his good and bad side and fully admit what he is, but he is also a great catalyst in the show for drama imo.