In this day and age with a burgeoning population we should not be encouraging people to have more children by paying them for it. Some feckless parents see having kids and living off benefits as a career choice these days. What's more councils shove them to the top of the housing queue. So blame the system that encourages irresponsibility, fecklessness and idleness.

What staggers me is that you still get people defending the indefensible - a socialist government in power for 13 years who in fact created MORE poverty by their reckless spending and misdirection of funding to greedy banks. Their manifesto was a work of complete fiction and they have merrily led this country to the brink of disaster. They weren't too shy about dipping their hands in the till themselves either were they?

Labour has encouraged a cradle to the grave welfare system that rewards the bone idle, the scroungers and the scammers whilst those in real need are forced to jump through hoops to get any help. Some people see living off benefits as a right, even though they have never paid a penny into the system or done a day's work in their lives.

What choice does the new Government have but to rein in spending and implement savage cuts?

Labour may have been in charge but its de regulation and unfettered greed (Thatchers baby) that got us in this mess and ordinary hard working people that are picking up the tab! Bloated public sector? you have obviousley never worked for the public sector have u.

And families on 30k shouldnt have to pay for this mess either, £30k is **** all for a family living in London or other areas down south when they have ever increasing housing costs/childcare costs etc

the utter savagery of these cuts is ideological and less about paying off the deficit and tax evaders and bankers need to be paying a higher share

oh lets all follow that logic and find ourselves old and alone with noone to support us, without children our future is ****ed

what a sad life you must live if the most meaningful thing you ever did was have sex and dumped out a child from yur crotch.

...and we wonder why society is in decline with attitudes like this?

having children has nothing to do with how alone you feel. if you rely on yur children to not feel alone, i feel sorry for your children. you sound very needy and dependant.

Well I know plenty of people who do just fine on far less than £30,000 AND they don't go down the social with their hands out, AND they limit their families to the amount of kids they can afford to have so what bloody planet do you live on if you think £30k is **** all? I also live practically on top of Lewisham, probably one of the ****tiest boroughs in London, so don't give me a load of BS about how tough it is to live in London compared to elsewhere. London wages are proportionately higher for the same job done elsewhere in the country, it's called London Weighting. As for never having worked in the public sector, you know nothing about me whatsoever. I worked as a civil servant at the Home Office for 9 years so keep your useless assumptions to yourself. And public sector workers have no more right than those in the private sector to wage increases, pensions, bonuses etc, never mind their jobs. Why should their jobs and wages be protected over and above those working in the private sector?

As regards the bankers - well it was the LABOUR party that chucked everyone's hard earned cash at them wasn't it? Oh, and plenty of Labour voters and Labour MPs alike displayed plenty of "unfettered greed" and took full advantage to enhance their own lifestyles. Hypocrites? Much.

Yet here you are, still trying to shift the blame for the useless and incompetent arseholes finally kicked out of power after THIRTEEN long years, during which they achieved virtually nothing except to leave us all in the ****. Or is that the signature whinge of every socialist? That it's always someone else's fault.

As for the "utter savagery of the cuts" - they don't go nearly far enough IMO, and that's from someone whose income is far, far less than £30k a year!

How sad to have children with the intention that in your old age you expect them to support you and keep you company. Children are not possessions or insurance policies for old age. If you have worked hard all your life you should have provided for your own old age and not expect your kids to look after you. Both mine have enough on their plates as it is without having to support me as well! I want them to get on and live their own lives without having to worry about me!

Use your brain Im not talking about me as an individual Im talking about society, do you understand how a society works?...no well you've got Thatcher to thanks for that...everyman for himself.... If we start penalising families and we all stopped having kids this country would go to the dogs when we're all old

....as I said Labour adopted Tory policy there mate and that was a costly mistake, Thatcher was right New Labour was the best thing she ever did and if you cant see that, thats your problem....Im not shifting the blame Im just pointing out where it all started and you still seem to think its fair to make ordinary hard working families suffer when it wasnt their doing. £30k is **** all for a family in London I dont care what you say, why should hard working Dr's Nurses Teachers Police Firemen (people who save lives and protect you) not have a decent standard of living while bankers are still getting massive bonuses and STILL taking the same risks as they always were?

Miss NettoAsdaWalmart Star

Even the Guardian polls support these Cuts.

Wake Up

Im not talking about me as an individual Im talking about the importance of children and families as a whole for society...if you cant see that your a bit limited upstairs

"without children our future is ****ed "


You need to watch the DVD or BluRay
Surrogates starring Bruce Willis.

Life In The Fast Lane.

I really couldnt care less how many people have swallowed the bull****e Arista

You need a Full Body Massage

get out of it man...you can all work like bitches for a pittance so bankers can carry on as per and swallow it, me Im a bit pissed off

Well if you are saying you're unable to articulate your meaning in a lucid way that can be understood by others that is YOUR problem, not mine. However, your meaning was quite clear, so your backtracking is pretty pathetic and transparent. Having read other posts of yours on other threads it's obvious to me that I'm not the one who's a few slices short of a loaf.:rolleyes:

And who has said anything against the importance of children and families? - it's you that needs to read posts properly before mouthing off. If people want more than a couple of kids, let THEM pay for their own offspring and not expect others to. The children of feckless workshy benefit scroungers are unlikely to learn anything from their parents other than how to milk the system. Hardly an asset to the country.

I'm not your mate, nor ever likely to be with someone with such strange views. Nobody put a gun to Labour's metaphorical head and insisted they adopt "tory" policies. Once again you are making excuses and trying to shift the blame for Labour's OWN policies and decisions. Typical socialist deflection tactics. And as for £30k not being enough for a family to live on, once again I will ask you, what planet are you on? £30k would be riches to my son and his family who have to live in rented accommodation because they cannot get on the housing ladder. The workers you mention get subsidised housing don't they, just one of the perks eh?

There are just as many HARDWORKING people in the private sector, many of whom earn a lot less than £30k. Oh, and I'm supposed to be grateful to the workers you mention who CHOSE their professions and are equally free to CHOOSE to leave them any time they like if they don't like the pay and conditions - but they won't will they because they're bloody well paid compared to some in the private sector who are just as HARDWORKING and also have families to support. And that's coming from someone whose mother was a nurse, and whose ex husband was a fire officer. No-one is MORE entitled to a good standard of living just because they work in those professions. What you are preaching is job discrimination - pretty damn hypocritical from a socialist.

I blame Labour's ridiculous "lets end child poverty" scheme.

The irony

A government that pledges to end child poverty at ALL costs (personal responsibility, empowering people to help themselves, children being able to get brought up by good role models, little things like that) and they leave office with social mobility in Britain considerably worse than it was 13 years prior.

Spot on - but still some will attempt to defend the indefensible. At last this government have said what we all think - people have no right to carry on breeding in the expectation that other people will pay for their offspring. There's a case in the papers today of a jobless couple with 10 kids raking in £95,000 nett in benefits and living in a luxury house courtesy of the taxpayer. It's bloody outrageous.

Ok let me break it down nice and simple for you, Im so sorry factual information is so baffling and strange to you

1. We're not talking about benefit cheats we're talking about hard working people bringing up the next generation and it being a travesty attacking hard working parents for *peanuts (*peanuts being the revenue generated from your suggestion) when there are billions of pounds lost in tax evasion every year and the richest 10% have got wealthier during the recession and so called period of austerity

2. If that doesnt make you angry theres something wrong with you

3. The so called bloated public sector is being made a scapegoat (along with benefit cheats) to deflect attention away from the real issues. Labours spending barely changed and was sometimes lower than the last Tory govts (aside from a cash injection for crumbling schools and hospitals etc)

4. noones saying the public sector shouldnt take some of the burden but the scale of the cuts on the table is alarming you might want to look into that

5. the lowest paid (public and private sector) without access to affordable housing (still waiting on that one) are living in poverty and thats a travesty. subsidized housing? what planet are you on? Oh and the people that go into nursing, teaching etc value people over money and are not responsible for the state of the lowest paid in the private sector.

6. If you think for one second it would have been different on a Tory watch your quite deluded

I can't have a serious debate with someone who thinks £30k a year is peanuts. I and plenty of people I know live on far less, AND in London, AND doing long hours, AND don't expect bloody handouts because they CHOSE to have kids. How dare you sneer at such a wage. You really are living in cloud cuckoo land. I have two sons both in full time employment and one supporting a family of four without handouts, and he is on nowhere near £30k.
You need to get your head out of your arse and join the real world where HARDWORKING people work rather than scrounge and make sensible choices about whether or not they can afford to have children.

So take your elitist opinions and shove them where the sun don't shine.

As for your last point, you can only speculate my dear, so you're the deluded one, going on about what might have been, instead of what actually happened. A bit hypocritical of you isn't it if you want to discuss actual FACTS. You lose the argument already, because here you are whingeing about necessary cuts in public spending which at least the TORIES are tackling. What did you expect after that socialist shower of useless incompetents mortgaging this country for the foreseeable future because of their profligacy? Labour are guilty in the first degree for encouraging feckless, lazy, bone idle benefit scroungers, to the extent that those in genuine need get pushed to the back of the queue, and are forced to jump through hoops to get their entitlements, because they are honest and don't know how to play the system. Why should pensioners who have worked and contributed to the system all their lives be living in poverty whilst layabouts who've never had a job have loads of kids they can't afford to keep themselves? I can't see their offspring being the saviours of this country when they grow up either:rolleyes:

Your so called "facts" are laughable - lifted straight from the Labour Book entitled "Do as I say, Not what I do". Lucky you, to be on a salary of over £30k - if you can't manage on that there's something wrong with YOU.

Let's hope the government keeps the cuts coming and end this dependancy culture once and for all.

Agree on all points Angus has made,why do so many people think this country owes them a living,far too many lazy buggars scrounging off the state,far too many ministers helping themselves to the coffers and banks who gorge on money handed to them like it's going out of fashion and paying all this ?is the poor sods who can actually bother to get up and work and pay taxes,Good for Mr Cameron,at last a PM who is doing something that the lazy sods will hate.!!

What I can't get my head round is that there are so many people (voters) out there who still believe that Labour did a great job and lay blame anywhere else other than where it lies. Labour is a benefit government and always has been. Everytime they are voted in they leave the country in huge debt. The elderly who have worked hard their whole lives, have in some cases fought for their country are left to rot by the country they fought for. People who find themselves alone to raise their families because of the death of a partner or being abandoned find it difficult to claim anything to get them back on their feet while others who choose not to work have higher incomes handed out to them than the rest of us can earn by working. The Labour government have made sure people are so comfortable on benefits and have catered for their every need, they've taken away any incentive for them to work. Labour have manipulated unemployment figures by taking on extra government employees on 'fixed term' contracts to lower the figures - contracts which are due to end in March 2011 so it ties in nicely with their loss of power - and they've been employed in the Department of Work and Pensions to cope with the extra work involved in the increased benefits they pay out. There is less money invested in education and healthcare than ever. There is less money in pensions for people who have worked hard their entire lives. My partner and I have been unemployed in the past and thank god we have survived these bad times with the help of our families. We have never claimed a benefit of any kind in our lives, even when we were entitled because I've always felt there are worse off people who need it more. And there are, but they are not the ones the Labour favour.
I cannot believe there are people out there who believe otherwise.

On 'This Morning' right now some pathetic couple with 7 children, living on benefits. She say's its her 'right' as a woman to have children (but not her right to pay for them apparently) He says he can't get a job that he would 'like' doing so he wont bother coming off benefits but he might think about it if he found a job he would enjoy. She says she'll have 20 children if she wants its her right. What *******ing planet - have them castrated - These 'adults' are children and Labour is their parent!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Glad I missed that or I would probably have thrown something at the television:mad: This is the sort of mindset that Labour has encouraged.

I'm done debating with idiots still apportioning blame everywhere except where it belongs. LABOUR had THIRTEEN years in power, so why are people still making excuses for this morally bereft government, who cynically "imported" voters - which unfortunately for them didn't work for them this time did it?

My sons will probably never be able to get on the housing ladder, so my heart isn't bleeding for a lot of people in the public sector cushioned from the realities the rest of us have to cope with. If they don't like it, let them try finding work in the private sector. It's disgusting that 80% of new jobs created whilst Labour were in power have gone to immigrants. So much for working hard ALL MY LIFE and paying my taxes and national insurance contributions, bringing up my sons, as a single parent for many years, without claiming handouts, and instilling in them a sense of responsibility and independence, only to find that they are the ones shoved to the back of the queue whilst newcomers to this country muscle their way to the front.

Silly me, I should have just let them run wild, impregnate little slags, and allow other people to pick up the bill for their fecklessness.:rolleyes: