Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 4312936)

I'm not buying this....... an obese person can still see themselves as thin?

Many obese people are in complete denial about the amount of food that they eat, but they still are more than aware that they are obsese - they will argue blind about how little they eat, and the type of foods that they eat. Many more than admit to it being 'a comfort, makes them feel good/better' - they are aware they are obsese.

Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 4312968)

Very informed and totally correct statement, Obese epeople do know they are overweight,its as you say they won't admit the reasons they are,as in how much they eat as you point out for one example.
Well said.

Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 4312984)

Thanks Joey. I recall years ago, watching a documentary - iirc, it was a teenager or a young adult. They/their mother replaced regular crisps with 'low fat' crisps -(they continued to munch their way through a dozen packs a day or so, but it was okay, coz they were eating 'low fat' varieties). Instead of thick chocolate biscuits, they stocked up on 'non choc' biscuits, instead of enough fried breakfast to feed 6 people, they moved to grilling - and reduced (for example) the 6 bacon rashers, tin of beans, 4 eggs, 5 sausages, 4 slices of toast - to about 3 bacon, 1/2 tin of bean, 2 eggs, 3 saus, 2 slices of toast - then had two bowls of cereal afterwards...... and let the kid eat their way through kilos of fruit via constant snacking all day.

The dieticians, nutrtionists, doctors could not get it through to either the child or the mother, that regardless - the amount of food being consumed was still far too much - as well as still being much of the wrong type.

Low fat is not always a good alternative has they have a high sugar level in
Incredible, ignorant and in complete denial in every sense.

Their argument? He eats healthy food and lots of it

Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 4312984)

Thanks Joey. I recall years ago, watching a documentary - iirc, it was a teenager or a young adult. They/their mother replaced regular crisps with 'low fat' crisps -(they continued to munch their way through a dozen packs a day or so, but it was okay, coz they were eating 'low fat' varieties). Instead of thick chocolate biscuits, they stocked up on 'non choc' biscuits, instead of enough fried breakfast to feed 6 people, they moved to grilling - and reduced (for example) the 6 bacon rashers, tin of beans, 4 eggs, 5 sausages, 4 slices of toast - to about 3 bacon, 1/2 tin of bean, 2 eggs, 3 saus, 2 slices of toast - then had two bowls of cereal afterwards...... and let the kid eat their way through kilos of fruit via constant snacking all day.

The dieticians, nutrtionists, doctors could not get it through to either the child or the mother, that regardless - the amount of food being consumed was still far too much - as well as still being much of the wrong type.

Incredible, ignorant and in complete denial in every sense.

Their argument? He eats healthy food and lots of it

Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 4313005)

That sounds exactly like anorexia to me...

Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 4313008)

Absolutely.


:whistle:



:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 4313014)

you don't see how replacing the words too much, with too little would be exactly applicable to anorexics?

Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 4313015)

Nope. Anorexic don't eat. Obese people eat to much. It's not exactly rocket science or difficult to understand. It is completely different ends of the spectrum.

Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 4313021)

that's like saying having brain cancer is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT to having cancer in the marrow of your leg bones. OMG the cancer is on totally different ends of the body, so it's not comparable at all!


The fact is, both over-eating, and anorexia are both eating disorders, and all eating disorders are part of the disease of Addiction.

Over-eating and Anorexia and Bulimia are all the same disease. They are all eating disorders and they all fall under the same umbrella of Addiction.

Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 4313028)

Okay, well we're getting no where in this conversation, so i agree we don't really have much left to say. I think i've been fairly frank and did my best to educate anyone who wished to listen.

Originally Posted by tmi (Post 4313044)

Not getting involved in argument but, just a little story a woman had a gastric band in America to stop her bad eating habits, the band worked and she lost weight but then gained another addiction booze. So I think food is addiction to some people, they see it has a crutch like various other addictions, cigarettes, drugs etc. Most peoples bad eating habits stem from emotional or physical problems. The way to go is eat to live not eat to live.

Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 4313021)

...and yes, Addiction is a MEDICAL DISEASE.

Originally Posted by Zippy (Post 4313053)

No it is not. You're being simplistic as usual.

A disease requires medical intervention.

Millions of addicts have weened themselves off smoking, drinking, drugs etc without any help from doctors, counsellors or outside intervention. They do so by altering their own psychology and applying self discipline. You don't cure diseases like this. Addiction is often a habit gotten out of control. Its a psychological behavioural pattern that can certainly lead to medical diseases. But in itself it is not a disease.

I think addicts like to call it a disease to somehow make themselves look less responsible for their actions. It becomes less of a stigma. Truth is, many addicts just do not have the willpower or determination to end their addiction. This is where calling it a disease comes in very handy...

Originally Posted by Zippy (Post 4313053)

No it is not. You're being simplistic as usual.

A disease requires medical intervention.

Millions of addicts have weened themselves off smoking, drinking, drugs etc without any help from doctors, counsellors or outside intervention. They do so by altering their own psychology and applying self discipline. You don't cure diseases like this. Addiction is often a habit gotten out of control. Its a psychological behavioural pattern that can certainly lead to medical diseases. But in itself it is not a disease.

I think addicts like to call it a disease to somehow make themselves look less responsible for their actions. It becomes less of a stigma. Truth is, many addicts just do not have the willpower or determination to end their addiction. This is where calling it a disease comes in very handy...

Originally Posted by tmi (Post 4313056)

The difference is you have to eat. So no avoidance.

Originally Posted by Zippy (Post 4313053)

No it is not. You're being simplistic as usual.

A disease requires medical intervention.

Millions of addicts have weened themselves off smoking, drinking, drugs etc without any help from doctors, counsellors or outside intervention. They do so by altering their own psychology and applying self discipline. You don't cure diseases like this. Addiction is often a habit gotten out of control. Its a psychological behavioural pattern that can certainly lead to medical diseases. But in itself it is not a disease.

I think addicts like to call it a disease to somehow make themselves look less responsible for their actions. It becomes less of a stigma. Truth is, many addicts just do not have the willpower or determination to end their addiction. This is where calling it a disease comes in very handy...

Originally Posted by tmi (Post 4313056)

The difference is you have to eat. So no avoidance.

Originally Posted by Zippy (Post 4313059)

I don't see anorexia as an addiction.

If you're talking about obesity then you do not have to avoid food; you make better choices and eat better portions. Its not all or nothig. And there's no shortage of healthy eating advice out there.

Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 4313060)

by your logic cancer is not a medical disease eigther then, because many people claim to have cured themselves through holistic herbal rememdies and stuff.

Addiction has nothing to do with willpower. Addiction is like diabetes. you can manage it through a strict regime, but it is incredibly difficult. But you cannot choose to be an addict, just like you cannot choose to be a diabetic.

Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 4313060)

by your logic cancer is not a medical disease eigther then, because many people claim to have cured themselves through holistic herbal rememdies and stuff.

Originally Posted by Zippy (Post 4313053)

No it is not. You're being simplistic as usual.

A disease requires medical intervention.

Millions of addicts have weened themselves off smoking, drinking, drugs etc without any help from doctors, counsellors or outside intervention. They do so by altering their own psychology and applying self discipline. You don't cure diseases like this. Addiction is often a habit gotten out of control. Its a psychological behavioural pattern that can certainly lead to medical diseases. But in itself it is not a disease.

I think addicts like to call it a disease to somehow make themselves look less responsible for their actions. It becomes less of a stigma. Truth is, many addicts just do not have the willpower or determination to end their addiction. This is where calling it a disease comes in very handy...

Originally Posted by lostalex (Post 4313063)

well it doesn't matter "how you see it" we're talking about facts and medical science. And it's been proven over and over again, that anorexics and bulimics are able to release pleasure hormones into the brain through either restricting (in the case of anorexics) or binging/purging (in the case of bulimics) the same pleasure hormones released in the brains of gambling addicts when they gamble, or sex addicts when they have sex. It is an addiction, medically. Whether you choose to believe it or not.

Originally Posted by joeysteele (Post 4313071)

I go with you near all the way Zippy, however I don't know, lostalex is in the States, maybe addictions are seen as diseases there.

Also in the UK many addictions as to drugs and drinking are dealt with medically,even with no serious illness problems to treat the addiction and minimise it and then get them off it.
Of course as you say, the addictions do most often lead to serious health matters and then it is an alcohol or drug related medically recognised disease.

I help out,only an hour a week at an addictions centre and no 2 people are the same, you can have 8 people with the same addiction but will often need to apply totally different plans for each of them.

Getting people to admit they have a problem whether that's drugs, drinking or any eating disorders is the real hardest part.