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-   -   Falklands row: Cameron vows to defend Islanders (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218271)

Jesus. 03-01-2013 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omah (Post 5725571)
Well, the same applies to the late-coming immigrants of Argentina, who all came from Europe, 1000's of miles away, to plunder the country - the Spanish planted their flag in the 16th century .....

Later, the Conquest of the Desert was a military campaign in the 1870s with the intent to establish Argentine dominance over Patagonia, which was inhabited by indigenous peoples. Under General Roca, the so-called Conquest of the Desert extended Argentine power into Patagonia. European settlers turned the conquered lands into a breadbasket which made Argentina an agricultural superpower in the early 20th century. The Conquest is commemorated on the 100 peso bill in Argentina .....

So the Agentianians should give Patagonian land back to the indigenous peoples ..... :idc:
Cutting and pasting from Wiki doesn't make your argument.

Jesus. 03-01-2013 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia (Post 5725549)
It's nothing to do with sticking our flag into a piece of land, it's about what the inhabitants of that place want. If they want to be Argentinian, then the argument would be over. But they don't. The Channel Islands are closer to France. It's not all about proximity.
But if Argentina had colonised Jersey for example, we Brits would sit back and accept that?

arista 03-01-2013 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omah (Post 5725579)
Hand Argentina back to the Amerindians first ..... evict the Spanish squatters and their descendants .....

Clever point

Sticks 03-01-2013 05:49 PM
According to this link on estimate is that

Quote:
it costs £400,000,000 per year to maintain the garrison, of one Infantry company, a Typhoon Flight and supporting staff,
And between the war around Las Malvenas and early February last year the cost of defending the islands was £12,000,000,000

How many hospital operations
How many school places
How many police officers
How many doctors
How many nurses

All to protect a bunch of people who do not generate a quarter of the cost of defending their squat.

Good money after bad!

Jesus. 03-01-2013 05:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticks (Post 5725605)
According to this link on estimate is that



And between the war around Las Malvenas and early February last year the cost of defending the islands was £12,000,000,000

How many hospital operations
How many school places
How many police officers
How many doctors
How many nurses

All to protect a bunch of people who do not generate a quarter of the cost of defending their squat.

Good money after bad!
There is no need to reduce these people to squatters.

Livia 03-01-2013 05:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ (Post 5725589)
But if Argentina had colonised Jersey for example, we Brits would sit back and accept that?
To use a famous quote from the Spartans... "If".

We're going to have to disagree on this one. Or duke it out in the car park...

thesheriff443 03-01-2013 06:06 PM
just to let you lot know i own a few planets in the universe.
get off my planet!:joker:

Sticks 03-01-2013 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ (Post 5725609)
There is no need to reduce these people to squatters.
What do you call people occupying someone else's property?

arista 03-01-2013 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticks (Post 5725658)
What do you call people occupying someone else's property?

Its Not Their Property

Jesus. 03-01-2013 06:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia (Post 5725621)
To use a famous quote from the Spartans... "If".

We're going to have to disagree on this one. Or duke it out in the car park...
Euphemism?

Omah 03-01-2013 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ (Post 5725582)
Cutting and pasting from Wiki doesn't make your argument.
Maybe not, but it introduces a few salient facts ..... :idc:

Omah 03-01-2013 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticks (Post 5725566)
According to UN conventions in the 1960's we were to give up the islands as they part of out dated colonialism.
Should the US give up Hawaii "as they part of out dated colonialism" ?

or Guam?

:conf:

arista 03-01-2013 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omah (Post 5725762)
Should the US give up Hawaii "as they part of out dated colonialism" ?

or Guam?

:conf:
Clever Point again.

Jesus. 03-01-2013 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omah (Post 5725762)
Should the US give up Hawaii "as they part of out dated colonialism" ?

or Guam?

:conf:
There are procedures in place that allow states the opportunity to secede. It's not straightforward, but there is a path at least.

Omah 03-01-2013 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ (Post 5725945)
There are procedures in place that allow states the opportunity to secede. It's not straightforward, but there is a path at least.
"You really are missing the point spectacularly."

Quote:
Guam is listed as one of sixteen Non-Self-Governing Territories* by the Special Committee on Decolonization of the United Nations. The island's capital is Hagåtña (formerly Agaña). Guam is the largest and southernmost of the Mariana Islands.

The Chamorros, Guam's indigenous people, first populated the island approximately 4,000 years ago. The island has a long history of European colonialism, beginning with its discovery by Ferdinand Magellan during a Spanish expedition on March 6, 1521. The first colony was established in 1668 by Spain with the arrival of settlers including Padre San Vitores, a Catholic missionary. For more than two centuries Guam was an important stopover for the Spanish Manila Galleons that crossed the Pacific annually. The island was controlled by Spain until 1898, when it was surrendered to the United States during the Spanish-American War and later formally ceded as part of the Treaty of Paris.
*
Quote:
The United Nations list of Non-Self-Governing Territories is a list of countries that, according to the United Nations, are colonized. The list was initially prepared in 1946 pursuant to Chapter XI of the United Nations Charter, and has been updated by the General Assembly on recommendation of the Special Committee on Decolonization and its predecessors.

in 1960, the General Assembly adopted Resolution 1514 (XV), promulgating the "Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples", which declared that all remaining non-self-governing territories and trust territories were entitled to self-determination and independence.
Guam is on the UN anti-colonial list, as are the Falkland Islands and Gibraltar, so why doesn't the US give up "colonial" Guam?

Surely Guam doesn't "belong to a country" 6000 "miles away" and Hawaii doesn't "belong to a country" 3000 "miles away".

Omah 03-01-2013 11:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ (Post 5725945)
There are procedures in place that allow states the opportunity to secede.
But no US state or NSG territorial possession wants to, right ..... ;)

Well, the UK's BOT doesn't want to "secede, either ..... :nono:

Jesus. 03-01-2013 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omah (Post 5727184)
"You really are missing the point spectacularly."



*

Guam is on the UN anti-colonial list, as are the Falkland Islands and Gibraltar, so why doesn't the US give up "colonial" Guam?

Surely Guam doesn't "belong to a country" 6000 "miles away" and Hawaii doesn't "belong to a country" 3000 "miles away".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omah (Post 5727211)
But no US state or NSG territorial possession wants to, right ..... ;)

Well, the UK's BOT doesn't want to "secede, either ..... :nono:
If you had an opinion of your own, then fair enough, but I've got no desire to read wiki pasting all night.

I'm no fan of the US at all, and they have troops in far too many countries. However, I don't know the intricacies of the Guam situation, and like I said, I can't be arsed to read wiki all night.

What I do know about though, is the Falklands situation. It's not our land and we should remove our sovereignty.

Omah 04-01-2013 12:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ (Post 5727247)
If you had an opinion of your own, then fair enough, but I've got no desire to read wiki pasting all night.

I'm no fan of the US at all, and they have troops in far too many countries. However, I don't know the intricacies of the Guam situation, and like I said, I can't be arsed to read wiki all night.

What I do know about though, is the Falklands situation. It's not our land and we should remove our sovereignty.
If you can't face facts ..... :shrug:

Nedusa 04-01-2013 07:59 AM
The Falkland Islands will remain British until a majority of Falkland islanders vote for a change of constitution. Also as lives were lost in 1982 defending these islands do not expect them to be handed over anytime soon.

Also since big business ( oil, gas and mineral reserves) is now involved even less reason to think sovereignty will be handed over in our lifetime.

The current Argentinian govt are in a mess and see the Malvinas as a political distraction, they know there is no realistic possibility of any change of sovereignty for at least a generation or longer.

This is just Political grandstanding which is doomed to fail like all the other failed attempts...!!!

Jesus. 04-01-2013 08:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omah (Post 5727258)
If you can't face facts ..... :shrug:
I have faced facts. I said I don't know enough about the Guam situation to compare it to us.

If it's the same situation, then I agree that it should be given back. There is no inconsistency with my opinion.

Omah 04-01-2013 09:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ (Post 5727650)
I have faced facts. I said I don't know enough about the Guam situation to compare it to us.

If it's the same situation, then I agree that it should be given back. There is no inconsistency with my opinion.
What about Hawaii, Samoa and and Midway?

Then there's French Louisiana, 1/3 of the current US, 828,000 square miles of land originally "owned" by the Spanish, but "bought" by the US from Napoleon Bonaparte for 3 cents an acre ..... :idc:

Kizzy 04-01-2013 02:04 PM
Anyone who thinks that what happened in 1982 in the Falklands was a matter of principal and nothing to do with natural resources is deluded.

Livia 04-01-2013 02:21 PM
Anyone who thinks this isn't a diversion tactic by the floundering Argentine government is also deluded. Much like the floundering Junta in 1982. I also think that, for the soldiers sho fought there, it was very much a matter of principle.

Omah 04-01-2013 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kizzy (Post 5728210)
Anyone who thinks that what happened in 1982 in the Falklands was a matter of principal and nothing to do with natural resources is deluded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livia (Post 5728248)
Anyone who thinks this isn't a diversion tactic by the floundering Argentine government is also deluded. Much like the floundering Junta in 1982. I also think that, for the soldiers sho fought there, it was very much a matter of principle.
I think it's a mixture of both points of view plus other factors, including Thatcher using the conflict to popularise herself ..... :yuk:

Livia 04-01-2013 02:45 PM
How could Margaret Thatcher have done things any other way? She didn't sit in Number Ten and direct the fighting like a chess game, you know. It could easily have gone tits up...


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