'The revised EUTPD should come into force this May and most of the new rules, including a ban on packs of less than 20 cigarettes and 30g of rolling tobacco, should apply by the first half of 2016.

Capsule cigarettes and other 
flavoured tobacco products will be banned from 2016, but a further phase-out period of four years will apply to menthol cigarettes.'

is this suggesting ecigs are to be banned?

http://www.conveniencestore.co.uk/ad...355349.article

The amount of nicotine is questionable too, the figures quoted 24mg to 36mg seem really high that's equivalent to 2 packs of cigarettes roughly. C10H14N2 contains carbon, hydrogen and nitrogen... not that beneficial to the human body whatever pseudoscience says.

Terry



I Drink Kenya Tea
it gives me a Kick


Better than your Toxic e cigg

From the International Journal of Environmental Research and
Public Health:



Damn, there's probably loads of studies which back up use of vegetable glycerine to be 'safe'. I don't pretend to be a medical expert (actually, medically ignorant would be a better description), but one thing I do know, there's a plethora of peer reviewed research that all come to the same conclusion - that ecigs are a far healthier alternative to smoking. As I've stated before, if cigarettes are deemed 100 (in terms of risk), then ecigs by comparison are somewhere between 1 and 5.

But, not even getting bogged down by the science, you speak to any user of ecigs and they'll all probably be saying the same thing: they can breathe better, they feel far healthier and it's been a life-changing decision for them.

I'm not sure why you're saying that it's unfair to compare one addiction to another. Let's take alcohol for a start. In 2012, about 3.3 million deaths, or 5.9 % of all global deaths, were attributable to alcohol consumption. That's quite a number.

Remember, nicotine has the same risk profile as caffeine. So, I'm left unclear why someone would say it's unfair to make a comparison? People think nicotine is the killer, when in fact it's all the other crap in cigarettes. There's mountain evidence that far from being a killer, nicotine in fact might be a wonder drug!

http://discovermagazine.com/2014/march/13-nicotine-fix

It would be a crying shame if the benefits of nicotine were swept under the carpet just because of some moral fanaticism.

Anyway, I apologise for aligning you with the Daily Mail. I think it was the "think of the children" thing that lead me to this misapprehension. Usually put forward by the zealots without any rational argument. Speaking of which:

http://ecigarettereviewed.com/top-10...vaping-zealots

I think people's main concern with ecigs is the fact that in some circumstances it can look like smoking. But it's just vapour. Do we ban kettles? Do we ban shaking coke cans in public because it might look like a gratuitous act of onanism? Where do we draw the line?

One thing I know though - the sooner the truth about ecigs becomes apparent, and can be discussed in a sensible and adult fashion, without emotive and nonsensical argument put forward such as "the think of the children" line (which doesn't have one shred of evidence to substantiate it being used), the better it will be. It will give millions of smokers a chance to make an informed decision to switch to a healthier alternative if they so desire.

That said, I have nothing against smokers - it's their choice, and they should have the right to carry on without the constant bullying and chastisement from a pernicious and judgemental society. :)

In short no.
Capsule cigarettes are normal tobacco cigarettes that you smoke like a regular cigarette but they have a capsule containing flavour in the filter so very different to e-cigs.
Also ecigs are not classed as a tobacco product as they contain no tobacco.

Regarding the Nicotine levels in ecigs v a tobacco cigarette the figures are confusing as a direct comparison in nicotine levels is very misleading as nicotine levels of ejuice are measured in concentrations of a liquid mg/l whereas cigarette nicotine levels are measured in micrograms and are shown as the amount you would be expected to absorb from a single cigarette. i.e. a cigarette with a nicotine level of 1.2mg accounts for there being a 10% absorbtion level of nicotine meaning there is actually 12mg of nicotine in a single cigarette and 240mg of nicotine in a packet of cigs a hell of a lot more than the 24mg per litre in a bottle of ejuice.

The propylene glycol used in ejuices is also used in asthma inhalers,lipstick,soap and all sorts of things and is long known to be completely harmless.

It's not just water though is it in all seriousness? In the information you posted there is the mention of formaldehyde so the argument that they are harmless begins to crumble.
The inclusion of the 'think of the children line again is unnecessary as I have already explained your misquotation of that comment,neither are my concerns nonsensical as I have also provided science based counter information to your claims that ecigs are the next best thing to fresh air, which as your breakdown of the components prove they are not.
Nobody is bullying anyone as far as I can see everyone still has the choice to smoke, there is no pernicious societal judgement involved in this discussion so you can relax.

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...es-really-are/

I saw an advert for them on TV the other day. It was quite boring and made E-cigs look the same. People sat around at dinner parties chatting and politely vaping away.

Lol @ that link. That features the infamous Stanton Glantz - he's basically a complete laughing stock, considered a buffoon of the highest order by proper medical doctors and cardiologist (his PhD is in applied mechanics and engineering economic systems).

He's following a puritanical agenda (most probably getting back-handers). Basically spouting lie after lie, which have all been blown out of the water by proper professional medical scientist.

I have never said that ecigs are harmless. From the very beginning I said that it's harm reduction. Not many things in life are harmless. Just like people who enjoy coffee, alcohol, meat, milk etc etc, are all engaging in an exercise of risk.

There again, compared to real cigarettes it's harm reduction by a considerable amount.

Your last line is incorrect. Smokers have been castigated, belittled, bullied, demonised and turned into social pariahs by the media. It's disgusting. Not only disgusting, but slightly alarming when you sit back and think about the wider implications. Yeah, yeah, relax. Comfortably numb eh? This is a sad reflection of modern times. :joker:

Was it Not Pornographic?

ummm, where's the hot cowboy???

http://shechive.files.wordpress.com/...pg?w=500&h=567

Ah right I see so you can post links to your biased 'ecigreview' sites and yet you rubbish mine with specific measured data included?
Your inclusion of potatoes was laughable enough but now milk comes under question in your analysis of the benefits of nicotine... It's an addiction, and you are a not demonised there is a drive to help those who wish to rid themselves of that addiction. I don't feel by vaping you are doing yourself any favours substituting one nicotine product for another isn't a 'healthy' option however you attempt to spin it.
You yourself are probably more at risk due you your preference forthe custard flavour which as you probably know will contain traces of the very dangerous diacetyl.

What's laughable about a potato? Or a pepper. They both have nicotine in them. That was just an example that nicotine is found in innocuous sources. An example that nicotine is fairly common and not just found in a rolled up piece of paper full of tar. I'm not sure why the inclusion of this example is so difficult for you to grasp? :shrug: Why was my reference to milk so hard for you to understand? Don't you realise that supermarket milk is full of growth hormones? Sorry, I overestimated you, I thought you'd be able to join the dots together, to comprehend the implicit.

This is becoming a fruitless discussion to be honest. It's getting ridiculous. I supply you with peer-review research from leading medical scientist and you call that pseudo-science, but at the same time, you give me a link from a laughing-stock who's not even a qualified medical practitioner!

You're suffering from a bad bout of confirmation bias because instead of perhaps looking at those peer-reviewed studies I supplied you with, you'd rather attack science with ignorance in the form of Stanton Glantz. The man's a laughing stock, period. It's quite embarrassing even referring to him.

Nope about the diacetyl. I make my own liquid. I have my own pharma grade PG/VG/Nic and get my custard from a company called Flavourart, who don't use diacetyl in their custards.

Addiction. Please don't moralise to me about addiction. You refused to answer if you consumed caffeine, or alcohol. We all have our poisons. God, even TV can be said to be a form of addiction. Unless you can come back to me and say you do regular exercise, don't indulge in alcohol, don't drink caffeine, don't indulge in the odd 'recreational' drug etc etc, then you can keep your lecturing to yourself. Otherwise, it just makes you look like a high-horsed, moralising hypocrite. :nono:

Right I'm done I guess. My last post. I enjoy engaging in conversation, but one addiction I don't suffer from is banging my head unremittingly against a brick wall. I think I might need an E-wall :joker:

It's not difficult for me to grasp it's just pointless... as pointless as saying when you use mouthwash you should join AA as it contains alcohol.
Whatever issues you have with the dairy industry are not relevant to this thread either so shall we stick to the issue here?
I think the consensus is there is a question mark over the industry with it being so new and much of the information comes from sources with some kind of organisational bias so it's hard to find reputable independent study.

However you make your frankenfags is of no interest to me, again if you want to feed your addiction that's your business.
This is a discussion forum I don't have to have first hand experience of anything to have an opinion thank you but as it happens I do have experience of addiction as I am an ex smoker.. I hope that qualifies me in your mind to have a view on this subject.,I'm not a bleeding heart, a mail reader, fun thief or hypocrite.

Wow, do you realise that you have an uncanny knack of contradicting yourself? Also, is there more than one of you there? You keep using the phrase "shall we". Strange. :joker:

Anyhoo, it seems you missed the whole point to the dairy reference. It went so far over your head that you could bounce radio signals off it. :laugh:

But, and you've been a bit naughty here, if you'd come out and straight away said you were one of those types of ex-smokers, I wouldn't have bothered in trying to engage in a rational discussion. The Allen Carr brigade and the Daily Fail are not the sort of things I usually waste my time with tbh.

I don't know if you're aware, but your whole tone is very passive aggressive. On the one hand you state it's non of your business and you couldn't care less, and then straight away decide it's reasonable to attach a derogatory label to it (frankenfags). So one minute you're saying you know nothing about the subject, and then the next attaching a nasty label to something you've just said you know nothing about. :shrug: Is this a demonstration of childishness or just plain stupidity? I'm really not trying to be rude here, but I can only see these two options as possible answers.

Here's another person who initially had the same type of opinion as you, but he decided that facts are fairly useful when forming an opinion. Also, he's a doctor. Oh, don't tell me, more bias! :joker:

Right, I think you're done. I could have gone on to say it's been fun.... but it hasn't :( :sleep:

Explain where I contradict myself.
As I said the dairy example was irrelevant so it didn't go over my head at all,it just has nothing to do with this discussion. Whatever conspiracy theory you have about the food industry which if you remember are the ones who say vape oil is safe... The FDA wasn't it you quoted?
Are they so wrong on milk standards and yet so right with everything else?

Why am I 'that' sort of ex smoker? First you intimate I cant have an opinion because I don't have experience of an addictive substance and now I can't because I have, you're not being very fair here terry.
You don't like derogatory terms? I though that was quite witty actually I'm upset now. You were quite derogatory to me too at time and your tone could be described as passive aggressive when you suggested I was joyless and a high horsed moralising hypocrite then :nono:

I didn't say I knew nothing about it to be fair I have done some research and so far I don't find them to be the holy grail as you appear to sorry.
These links also seem to corroborate my concerns https://www.ersnetsecure.org/public/...entation=59718
https://www.ersnetsecure.org/public/...entation=59718