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he has bought the missionary myth |
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My parents saw me through UNI, I see myself as one of the lucky ones,it still doesn't change the fact that some people will come out of UNI with upwards of over £25,000 of debt around their necks even before they start doing anything else.
It is a debt that is there too, should they need to apply for other things. Okay, Labour introduced the fees, then increased them slightly. Then in 2010 we had the Lib Dems warning that the Conservatives were going to at least double the fees from the £3,000 they were then. The Lib Dems near stalked new and existing students promising to abolish the fees altogether and if they had any influence after the 2010 election, to never vote to increase them. Then they voted to actually 'treble' them. I am no longer a student at Uni, I do however applaud Labour's plan to reduce the max. by a third to £6,000. Also the very last people who should be talking about tuition fees and what should be done, are both the Conservatives and Lib Dems. The Conservatives for not revealing they intended to treble the fees and the Lib Dems for their misleading of students and their families with their then betrayal of even signed pledges. There are good and not so good students, Uni can be both physically and mentally draining for years, no wonder when assignments and work is complete, they really go wild and let their hair down. It is easy to say all students are lazy,without actual fair and just knowledge of what they are doing, some courses are far harder and demanding than others. Since joining tibb in 2010,I have had to battle against near prejudice and put downs as to students but I would like to see those who criticise and judge do some of the intense work and endless researching I had to do with strict deadlines. I worked with dedication and extremely hard for my degrees and I was glad I was lucky enough to have the family backing not to leave Uni with massive debt around my neck, no matter how much I would have had to pay back or when. It is still a total debt Students have. All before going to try to buy property or rent property as well as all other things they need to do with any finances. Any reduction in that new debt since the fees were trebled under this lying coalition govt; should be welcomed in my view, by Students, their families and those planning to just explore going to Uni too. |
It's great that labour want to reduce them by 3000, but since they have been tripled since 2010 it just really isn't enough. Step in the right direction, yes. Enough, no.
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If my daughter had been born a couple of months earlier she would have been in with the last intake to start at 3k :/
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University hasn't only taught me well, I've grown considerably as a person since going. The changes I've gone through personally have been worth way more to me then the degree at the end of it. Regardless of the job prospects going forward, I feel more ready for life than I could have imagined as the timid hermit I was previously. This doesn't apply to everybody but it's been so vital for me; I found myself.
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I can appreciate that Uni students, during those years, could be seen as "doing very little" but there's more to the University experience than that, in my opinion. More to it than the job you get / money you make afterwards, too. About to throw out some MASSIVE generalizations here but... meh... it is true:
People who I know around my age, in their 20's / 30's. The ones who went to University are generally making less money than the ones who went straight into employment or trades. Yes. However, the ones who went straight into employments and trades are - in general - ****ing pig ignorant to anything in the world outside of their home town (which they probably grew up in, and went to school in too). They are fixing up the same houses they walked past when they were 5 years old. They're drinking in the same dusty pubs, with the same dusty friends, that they had their first pint in at 18. Fast forward 40 years and the ones who haven't drunk or eaten themselves to death will still be drinking in those same dusty pubs with the same dusty friends. A University education teaches you how to think critically, to reason, to use logic. To know more about the world - to be INTERESTED in knowing more about the world - than what has fallen into your tiny sphere of existence. I know the former is enough for some people. "Go to school get a trade get a job get married have some kids buy a house retire die". It's (rightly) not enough for many people. I'm also not going to pretend that there aren't a huge number of students who fail to make the most of their time at University. There definitely are. In my opinion, though, much of that is due to massive failings in how the education system preceding University works. That is a WHOLE other debate, though. It's also sort of irrelevant. Stating that University is a "waste of time" for anyone who isn't seeking a vocational qualification is, frankly, bull****. It stems from the sort of mindset that thinks "work work working and accumulating wealth" is the be all and end all of the human experience. |
That's exactly it. It's all well and good throwing people into employment at the earliest possible age so they can contribute to taxes, taxes, taxes but there is more to life.
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There are people that I met on my first day of first year University and was still living with 4 years later, on our last day in a shared house. All of us were very, very different people on that last day than the kids who arrived on the first day of freshers week. This is largely true of everyone I met through University. Majority of the guys who went straight into employment and didn't move more than a couple of miles from home, as far as I can tell, were exactly the same people aged 22 as they were when I knew them at school aged 16. ****, I'm nearly 30 now and from what I've seen most of them are STILL exactly who they were at 16 :joker:. |
Totally up to the individual, both of mine went to uni.
Son went first, being the elldest, bright lad, but he felt dragged down by yet more education and dropped out after about 5 months. Daughter had the sense to have a gap year, she was then looking forward to it, she loved every minute of it, moved to Brighton to do her teaching degree and has never looked back. Son ended up doing his degree whilst doing an apprenticeship so he got there in the end, He ended up with so much less debt, but our daughter has ended up with so much more life experience, the difference in their wages is not that big once her uni fees are taken out of her monthly wage packet, maybe about £6grand, but her chances of promotions are far higher. |
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More young people aren't equipped to deal with life now because technology has taken over from real human interaction; people text instead of talking, punch keyboards instead of talking, live life by proxy via video games in darkened rooms instead of going out into the world and enjoying their own real mini-adventures. I'm glad for you Samuel. Really glad. You sound so balanced and mature. Let's hope this fact and your qualifications do lead to a good career which you'll enjoy. |
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Like you say; it's up to the individual. |
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I never went to uni so I can only relate via my 3 kids, but the points you make about it are valid in my opinion. It is more than mere education (as Samuel so elegantly puts it in his post). I can however, definitely vouch for your sentiments in the section which I have emboldened because I recognise everything you say in it. I would go further and add that such people usually end up marrying the girl from the next street - if not the next door. We are different generations but it seems like nothing much has changed there. |
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It's one of the biggest scams going, create thousands of pointless degree courses after upgrading hundreds of further education colleges to give out these pointless degrees.
So thousands of students who would be better suited to vocational work or professional trades have now got a sub standard degree in media studies from a university nobody has heard of. And they have £30,000 debt as well. So now unemployed looking for that perfect media job they are sadly disappointed to learn 5,000 other graduates have similar or better degrees and they too are looking for the same job you are after. So now unable to get your foot on the ladder to success unable to slot into the high powered media position you thought was there , instead saddled with 30 grand of debt you cannot leave your parents house and have to take any job you find. So McDonald's at this point start to look like a good career move.... This situation is replayed over and over again and is a direct consequence of the shameful exploitation of the higher education system and a misguided or deluded idea that everyone should have a degree and all go to excel in high powered professional careers. Society doesn't work like that , we can't all be Chiefs there have to be some Indians . A mixture of workers straddling all levels of employment . Getting an apprentiship and being trained and paid and getting work experience from the start is now a very desirable career choice. I only wish there were more apprentiships out there. But the present situation is unsustainable and unfair to the hundreds of thousands of youngsters whose carreer aspirations are being seriously undermined by successive govts shortsighted and ultimately flawed education policies. |
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This is at least a start in the right direction. However, it is in my view obscene that students at Uni, should come out of that education, (and despite the views of some who always get at students, actually do work really hard in the main for their degrees), with likely debts of more than £25,000 around their necks which are then taken into account when applying for mortgages etc; too. Just for trying to better themselves. Get jobs rather than UNi some say, what jobs, a part time job, a zero hours contrac job or another low paid job where in fact in those sort of jobs very little and even no tax would be paid anyway. It is easy to attack students as being lazy and Uni a waste of time,while others can hold that view it doesn't make it right to brand all students the same. I do get really annoyed at that since I saw how hard others worked at UNI and how hard and stressful I found it at times too. Often having to prepare and work all through the night,over my years at UNI,at times to make sure I had everything done and in order. The fact is this coalition should have never trebled the fees in the first place,with a policy to at least double the fees from one party and the wish to abolish the fees by the other party in the coalition,how the compromise came to actually treble them, is beyond all understanding to me. |
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Great post Nedusa |
Having a university degree can be beneficial, even if you don't actually use the degree you studied for. My daughter and son-in-law both got degrees and worked part time whilst at university. Their employers offered them full time employment as soon as they finished uni AND their pay scale was higher than someone doing the same job, but without the degree.
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