It really is disgusting how the tories have used the crash to justify cuts to the NHS which have crippled the nurses - given them a harder workload, given them less pay rises.. meant that people cannot get certain treatments anymore. Then they have also made cuts so severe to the welfare system that people have died, almost a million people are using foodbanks and child poverty has gone straight up and doubled. All while this is happening they are throwing around immigration figures to smoke-screen the real issues. Honestly I am relieved that the tories are doing so horribly in the 18-24year olds opinion polls, hopefully even lower by the time people my age are eligible to vote (for me that will be 2020 for the next general election or 2018/2019 for local elections I am not sure)

labour are a bigger threat with their endless middle management waste cover ups mismanagement stinking corruption filthy hospitals sucking up to the nurses union for votes and covering up the failures of some corrupt lazy or incompetent staff....troubleshooters should be encouraged, we should never have another Stafford disaster again BUT WE WILL....the welsh nhs sells peoples body parts and didn't even ask people first

You have really nothing good to say about the NHS anyway with respect, all over the years you have hammered nursing staff for instance.

I appreciate you must have had some really bad experiences with the NHS and you are right as to the middle management issue in part.
So I take on board your right from that anger and disppointment to hold the views you do,even though I will never agree with you as to them.

There will sadly with all institutions as large as the NHS is, be problems here and there and yes,big failures too.
None are planned but they will happen.
So on those lines however I can still understand why you have such a negative attitude towards the NHS.

However to even indicate that Labour is a threat to the NHS is quite frankly laughable,if it wasn't so serious.
You go ahead and allow the Conservatives 5 more years with the NHS, you won't need to worry about the middle management, you may even be in the fortunate postition of not having to worry about paying for your healthcare and treatment should you need it, just as I wouldn't either.

However for millions who are the most vulnerable and possibly even the most sick and in need,who will be left after 5 more years of the Conservative plans for the NHS,with a sub standard,basic, longer waiting time for cheaper and limited treatment,it will be an absolute nightmare.

If you really believe Labour would do anything to bring that about then I am really sorry for your view as to that and would say in my view, you make a massive misrepresentation of Labour and the NHS..
I know,the Conservatives will be a big threat, bigger than ever before, and voters that trust them not to be, will in 5 years, if they really ever cared about the NHS in the first place, feel far more betrayed than those who voted Lib Dem on the tuition fees debacle.

The really frightening thing is,with this top down re-organisation done over this parliament, then the ressurected plans that were shelved then brought in and done too,then the new programme of changes to the NHS from this PM and this Conservative govt; in the next 5 years, will leave the situation irreversible and I for one, don't want that on my conscience or take the risk of it coming about either.
Doctors, Nurses and other people connected to the NHS are allw arning of the dangers.

If people even want to believe an already proven liar as to his policies as to the NHS like David Cameron,over those people who spend day in day out, trying to save lives and treat people, then I really do despair for the future of the UK as being any even just a fair level of a decent society.

The thing I will hate to see the most is anyone coming on here in 4 to 5 years from now saying okay Joey you were right.
Because then it will be too late too,to change the chaos there will be.
I am confident to really say and believe, give this PM an overall majority with this team behind him and that will be the case.
The end of the NHS as we know it, want it to be and from how it was founded to be,for all, not just for those with wealth and funds to ride the storm.

The link I initially posted is depressing. Unfortunately most people will never view it.

The NHS is being carved up and shared out amongst interested investors and many of those investors are parliamentarians. Its not just the conservatives; the tentacles of this octopus reach far and wide across other political parties but 75% of those parliamentarians are Conservatives. Politicians with financial interests in health care should not be making or influencing health law. In my opinion, Lords should not be voting on a bill when they have so much to gain from privatizing medicine.

Thatcher once said, “Blair was the best thing that could ever happened for the Conservative government”. Theres no question that it was Blair who initiated back door privatization of the NHS but the Conservatives jumped on that band wagon and continue to have the foxes look after the chicken coop.


I agree with Joey; those with real experience of working in the health sector have been specifically excluded from NHS talks within government. Like you Joey, some of my relatives, including my father, are in the medical profession. Over the years I’ve listened in on their lengthy debates regarding the selling off of the NHS and how the public are being conned into believing the big lie. Our doctors are merely pawns in this big money making machine. Our NHS is a precious national resource regardless of what anyone says and the only reason anyone would wish to destroy that resource is for huge financial personal gain. The NHS belongs to us the people so why are we, its owners being kept in the dark and systematically fed false propaganda regarding its failings? We are being fed a lie and nothing short of an uprising is going to harness these corrupt bastards.

Thank you for that Demolition Red, exactly, I would rather anyday believe those who are on the receiving end working in the NHS over this conning PM.
Excellent post.

Your contribution here this morning is spot on and fits in with all I hear from my relatives in the NHS too.

Well voters are warned, they make their choice, believe the medical staff and organisations or this PM who wouldn't see the truth as to the NHS if it hit him in the face.
His word is meaningless as to the NHS, as he demonstrated very clearly in 2010.

The sad truth is that people vote through fear. It's the number one motivator. And the current government, with its hammering home of austerity has people terrified about numbers and money, that we'll end up drinking dirty water and eating flies. It's got people whipped up to the point where they are more worried about money and budgets than they are about their own health.

And that's why people will happily watch the NHS crumble if they think it will "save money".

People believe the rhetoric and are completely taken in by the spin, the lies, the tabloid articles. They believe that the NHS has to go because it's unaffordable. They determinedly stuff their fingers in their ears and cover their eyes to the sinister truth that it's being sold off by individuals with conflicts of interest, for their own profit.

Reducing faith and public confidence in the NHS has been happening for a long time, as well as the stories in the media regarding waiting times and waste, the rot does seem to be from within also due to the persecution of whistleblowers, this I hope is addressed urgently.
None of the issues however should mean that the national health service should come to an end, as always the truth will out.
However it's not surprising not as many are aware of how they are being kept in the dark about the seriousness and the full extent of the problems with hidden reports, restricted funding, media blocks on demonstrations, waiting times.
My sister worked in the LGI as a nurse and a specialist nurse for 25yrs she's seen the changes and they are in no way patient centered or geared towards good clinical care.
You cannot run a hospital as a business.

Let's hope they can sort out the 'missed appointments' problem that costs the NHS so much money.

I'm wondering what they could do to counter that... Save from asking people when they plan to be ill and booking a car to collect them I can't think of a solution.

Exactly. When you can only book an appointment a week in advance - then you wake up on the day feeling fine - what can you do? You either call and cancel or... What... Go anyway? For what possible reason?

Call and cancel so someone else can have the appointment, obviously. Then that person won't have to wait a week, will they.

Is there evidence that this is one of the most detrimental and pressing issues facing the NHS today?
It is one of the... in fact maybe the only aspect that could be considered the fault of the service users.

Have to say as much as I love Joey,this post is spot on

It will be there ,just has it's been for years,it will still be free for those that need it,as it is for dentists etc, it's not the goverments fault people are living longer and more people need treating,and I wonder why they are living longer? because of our health facilities which may I say is not the best in the world in some fields. labour will do no better for us than anyone else ,it's all clap trap.

'CLAPTRAP'

:clap1:There's a 'deserved' 'CLAP' for you Kaz my love - I'm afraid that young Josh has fallen into the 'TRAP' by swallowing too much 'Leftie' propaganda.

I hope so but I wouldn't bank on it. Free to those that need it? Do you mean like the paupers hospitals they have in America? Can you imagine losing your family home because you couldn't afford the insurance premiums before you were diagnosed with cancer? Its certainly beyond my comprehension but then I've always had the NHS.

Statistics show that British people live longer than Americans. That's because your average Joe won't bother his doctor until his illness has progressed much further than his British cousin. Even with expensive health insurance, everything has to be passed by that insurance company before treatment can be given. British people live longer because we have more preventative programmes and because we are far more likely to be diagnosed in the early stages of an illness than an American patient. Is that a bad thing?

I would argue that we do have one of the best medical systems in the world.

So if we support the foundations NHS we are lefties? FFS have you done any research into what's actually happening ?

I have always found the service better under a tory government in my lifetime
during the 80s even under the evil thatcher she at least cut back some mis management and bloated burocracy which doesn't just drain millions it also makes the whole system work far less cohesively and frankly corrupts the main goals of the nhs , to make people better

im happy to read any and all links you have....as I said I distrust both parties. but new labour are the worst government in british history bar none. the gap between rich and poor was bigger than for 200 years, the banks deregulated, the bank of England useless, the debts the biggest ever, the illegal wars, the erosion of civil liberties, the massive growth in the unworking underclasses and entitlement britian, the enslavement to the european union, the endless petty laws, the stealth taxes, they didn't even target vat or top rate of income taxes until their last year, pathetic....they also did nothing for industries..the nhs scandals were appalling. thousands tens of thousands dying from neglect....250000 died one year from undiagnosed blood cloths they picked up in hospitals....also the labour party fawning over the nurses union is a massive part of the problem. there are a vast amount of bad nursing practices. troubleshooting must be more encouraged as it is now, this saves lives and also makes the lives of the good nurses far easier.

the nhs is NOT about nurses, its about patients. the sub standard performance of nurses has been allowed to grow and worsen over many years and no one has carried the can, very few nurses ever get sacked, even in a hospital where 1000 people died of neglect, many simply died of thirst.

the over application of dnr's is a massive scandal, in many cases without even consulting families. the bullying of individuals to allow family members to simply die the moment you arrive at the emergency ward is a scandal.

IM SICK TO DEATH OF LIBERALS OVERY DEFENDING NURSES. THEIR STANDARDS HAVE GONE DOWN FOR YEARS, DECADES. THEY HAVE LESS WORK TO DO THESE DAYS NOT MORE. THE CLEANING IS DONE FOR THEM, THE FEEDING IS DONE FOR THEM, THE PORTERS PUSH THE CHAIRS AND TRANFSER PATIENTS FROM BEDS, THE OCCUPATIONAL THERAPISTS USE THE HOISTS (THOUGH THEY ARE MOSTLY USELESS TOO)THE PHARMACISTS ARE ON HAND, THE DOCTORS MAKE THE DECISIONS, THE RADIOLOGISTS AND OTHER SPECIALISTS DETECT WHATS WRONG WITH PATIENTS. EVEN THE BEDS ARE MADE. THEY HAVE LESS TO DO AND THEY DO IT WORSE ON AVERAGE. IF THEY STILL CANT HACK THE JOB THEN QUIT AND GO AND DO SOMETHING ELSE...I know from extensive experience how many nurses go to work hammered drunk form the night before too, again this is not cracked down on. british hospitals were 70 times dirtier than Scandinavian hospitals in the late 1990s earl 20o's with endless mrsa infections

nurses will try anything to get out of feeding old patients with dementia or swallowing issues just in case they get blamed or simply because it takes 30 minutes plus. I know ive done it

ive been told so many lies by nurses and nhs trust and staff over the years I could write a book

THE SCOTS THOUGH HAVE 1 GENIUS IDEA...THEYRE MERGING SOCIAL SERVICES AND TRUSTS TO SHARE CARE NEEDS UNDER 1 ROOF. THIS WILL SOON BE DONE IN ENGLAND TOO, HALLELUJAH. THIS MEANS NO MORE ENDLESS SQUABBLES ABOUT WHO PAYS FOR THE CARE. THE WHOLE ARGUMENT WAS OVER IS THE PATIENTS PRIMARY NEED A HEALTH OR SOCIAL NEED. WHAT A NONSENSE QUESTION INVENTED UNDER NEW LABOUR...

furthermore....the mindless under use of multi million pounds equipment for scanning that can save lives and save bed blocking and save millions is a scandal. the ombudsmen have been too weak and too slow in reacting to complaints...the ambulances are mis managed too...they take block bookings that are complex to cancel, hence they've missing targets for 20 years... theres so many problems so much waste so much abuse and corruption.....this is costing lives and its unacceptable under both governments. BUT there have been fewer scandals under the tories because theyre not so enslaved to the nhs unions

there are many better now and our standards have dropped hugely....the main advancements are from the scientists

When there isn't a basic principled free for all NHS left, that will likely even have a different name in the next 5 years too, perhaps you will see others were possibly right and that the people who work as Doctors and Nurses in the NHS who have given the warnings were right too,and that Saint David was completely wrong and again managed to con some voters.

I did say in SOME fields we don't,on the whole we have a good health system,but in some fields we lag behind,this notion Conservatives will destroy it is a myth,imo,they haven't destroyed it yet,but they may get rid of some of the pen pushers which aren't needed and would be a good thing,again imo.and don't forget,sometimes patients cant get their much needed drugs here because of money and red tape,so in SOME areas we are not ALL that.

We will see Joey,but I don't think it will be an issue as I think your boy may scrape through :hehe:

Called the docs this morning, they have nothing this MONTH! I have never heard that one before..apparently if I call tomorrow I can get 'triaged' and seen the same day, but I feel awful taking an emergency appointment just for medication. If they would just rewrite my bloody perscription there would be no problem...been on the same tablets for months for gods sake, and no change in my illness...

I support what is termed left wing policies but am no way a a promoter of left wing propaganda, the right wing propaganda is as dangerous and ridiculous as any left wing nonsene there has been over the decades.

Nurses are massively overworked, Doctors are overworked,this govt; expects then to work even more for less,with dismal wage increases for Nursing staff too,not only over the last 5 years but in the next couple of years too.

JoshBB is talking far more sense than most as to the NHS,you may find it easy to avoid by choice the damage Cameron is doing to the NHS, even when you choose to ignore senior Doctors putting pen to paper too as to the fact.
Clearly like others JoshBB has done his own research and made his own mind up.

What a thing to say anyway about someone who is 14 or 15, that he has succumbed to left wing propaganda.
Since he agrees with me on some issues of it, I must then be a left wing propagandist he has succumbed to,in your generalised view of same.
I am sure he can form his own opinions and make his own judgements,with every right to and not get a label stamped on him like left wing propagandist.

Tony Benn was called that in the 80s and 90s when he wanted to get out of the EU,he was called the most dangerous man in Britain and left wing loony'
Who and what section of society are now almost leading the UK down that road now?
No, not left wing politicians but right wing ones,like the current PM and UKIP.

The only propaganda right,left or otherwise that is coming out from anywhere is coming from Cameron, that the NHS is safe in his hands.
Ignore his lies and his broken pledges to the NHS all you like but its not left wing propaganda at all, It is passion, from those who really care about the NHS and for all that use it too, who are pointing out what is going wrong with it and that this man has his hidden agenda to it.

When I hear and see my family worn out from their work in the NHS and how fearful they are for its 'real' future under this govt; then I will defend them and jump in with a passion with my views as to same.

I will never choose to ignore the senior medical profession when they say what this govt; has done to the NHS.
You and others can dismiss all those who do so as left wing propgandists all you like, that is actually highly insulting and you do a massive disservice to those who work in the NHS and who like myself have a passion for it too.

Applaud Kazanne all you like, I don't, and that saddens and surprises me greatly but I will believe and support Doctors and Nurses anyday, who are the ones working their backsides off year on year who say this govt; has caused devastation to the NHS this last 5 years.
Not a left wing propagandist at all, that you generalise all such comments against Cameron on the NHS as but actually setting out to defend and help stand up for the NHS and its Doctors and Nurses.

Anyway,if that really is being a left wing propagandist in your general view of such scenarios, then tell you what, I am over the moon to be termed it.
I would rather that, than support a man who has already lied repeatedly as to his intentions on the NHS and who I believe is lying and misleading the voters again too.

Have I; "done any research into what's happening?"??? You should know me better, or you do not know me at all. I could fill 20 pages on what I know about the NHS Red - all of it FACTUAL - and a lot of it not showing 'Labour' in a good light.

However, I was NOT saying that anyone who cares for the NHS or supports its 'Foundation' is a 'Leftie' because that would be unjustly flattering to 'Lefties' by suggesting that only 'Lefties' care for and support the NHS, which they most certainly do not - though they might presume as much to read what they post - and 'Lefties' have no more monopoly on caring for and supporting the NHS than any of the rest of us.

What I ACTUALLY said is that: "I'm afraid that young Josh has fallen into the 'TRAP' by swallowing too much 'Leftie' propaganda" - which is not the same at all as saying that all those who "support the foundations NHS" are lefties?"

There is a wealth of 'propaganda' and 'false facts' and 'misinformation' in the newspapers and on the internet about subjects as diverse as 'UFO's' to 'Celebrity Gossip' to 'Immigration', and 'Politics' is no exclusion.

For every 'website' proposing one view as gospel truth, there are three more 'rebutting' and 'debunking' that one with the 'real' 'truth'.

The key to utilising such websites is as exhaustive research as possible across a broad spectrum of sources, then painstaking cross-referencing.

When I said that "young Josh has fallen into the 'TRAP' by swallowing too much 'Leftie' propaganda" I meant EXACTLY that.

And I feel justified in stating the above, because, although Josh is a very, very bright 14 year old - he is a 14 year old, and therefore lacks life experience and the type of wisdom that only comes with maturity (which is not to say that all mature people are wise).

A lot of the views expressed in his posts are also - in my opinion - very naive and that too assures me that I am justified in stating that he has "swallowed too much 'Leftie' propaganda".

I hope that I have now cleared up your misinterpretation Red.