To solve a conflict, the most important thing is to try and understand what their reasoning is so that you can combat that and hopefully resolve the issue. For ISIS, they have a very extreme ideology that everyone must bide by their salafi jihadist religion without any compromise.. and so there isn't really much to negotiate.. it's clear the most important thing we must do is prevent radicalisation and stop people turning to ISIS.

Many people who have joined recently quote that they believe 'the west' is bombing their homes and hospitals. ISIS has taken the mistakes of our governments and made out that they were made in malicious intent, and so if we were to drop more bombs indiscriminately in the region I really don't believe it would help to prevent people turning there.

Also what doesn't help is the anti-immigrant sentiment in our country right now. People in dangerous syrian war-zones have ultimately three options: they can join isis, attempt to cross the water into europe, or they can be killed. And I don't think anyone wants the third option, so what we really need to do is be taking more refugees to prevent ISIS getting hold of more fighters and supporters.

This might be poorly written but I hope the point gets across nonetheless. We need to deradicalise, and even better prevent it happening in the first place. The answer is not to drop more bombs, and definitely not to just ignore the syrian civilians.

I think they're just evil people wanting to cause death. They don't just target the west, they murder people in their own countries too. Surely, if their reasons were "well their soldiers killed some of us so we're going to kill some of them" they would target a government building or something, not a concert full of innocent teenagers.

I do think Western foreign policy is a part of the narrative: I don't think many would deny that it's largely been a disaster in the last decade. On the other hand there are obviously the internal issues like people have talked about and its clear that a lot of these countries have been melting pots of religious, ethnic and political tension for decades that have been waiting to boil over. That's clearly the case in Syria. As of now though the only force capable of defeating IS in the country is the Syrian army. Assad might be a brutal dictator but he can't be removed without the Syrian state crumbling so he needs to be a part of the political settlement, though obviously it can never go back to business as usual. Although the West won't like to admit it, the Russian strikes have already been far more successful in pushing back IS than Western ones have because the US refuses to target IS in areas where they're fighting the Syrian army, in case it looks like they're supporting Assad. There should be a coordinated effort from the US and Russia and we should obviously be a part of that as well. Its crazy that we're bombing IS in Iraq and then are unable to in Syria even though the border between the two countries now means absolutely nothing.

That's my point. I've seem many posts on various sites basically saying that the west are to blame because if it wasn't for our governments and soldiers, ISIS wouldn't have a reason to do this. But that's just bull**** in my opinion.

But why didn't we leave them to it?
We didn't have a problem with Islamic terror groups in Europe before we got involved.

Yes, they are evil people and no, they don't just target the west. On the 12th of November, the day before the French attacks, two suicide bombers killed 43 people and wounded 239 more in the Lebanese capital in an ISIS-propagated murder. It got little news coverage because it was Muslims killing Muslims.

Truth is, the fundamental principles of Islam have been hijacked by extremists but if we try to defeat these radicalised monsters with militarily action we don't defeat the ideas intellectually, then the ideas will re-emerge which will only bring more mayhem to the West.

Best reply so far imo
selling weapons to insane people is also an issue that is being ignored yet again

TODAY IT WAS CONFIRMED SOME OF THESE PARIS BOMBERS HAD FAKE PASSPORTS MADE IN SYRIA AND FOUND AT THE SCENE OF THE MASS MURDERS. PASSPORT CONTROL IN FRANCE ADMIT THAT WITH OPEN BORDERS AND MASS REFUGEE ARRIVALS. THAT THEY SIMPLY CANOT CHECK ALL PASSPORTS

in Short here, Farage was 100% right and all the left wing pro EU liberals were 100% wrong....open borders are an absolute disaster and imo its the left who have used them wrongly to call the right racists for being against open borders.

but the do gooders on the left have banned us having a full and frank debate about it....anyone who actually issues a genuine opinion is shouted down as a racist. the left have basically destroyed our freedom of speech , which is yet another horrific legacy of war monger blairs evil government

Nobody is interested in any talking unless it includes throwing bombs around and closing borders, which for me is both undiplomatic and reactionary.

Is there a link for the passport info please?

You mean on here?

It's not our entire fault.. I agree with you. People who say that we are most likely feel angry towards the foreign policy but took their anger a bit too far to the point where it's just misplaced.

I remember reading somewhere that Al-Qaeda were originally trained to fight Russia but they became too powerful and we tried taking them out, they retaliated with 9/11.. sounds believable but the legitimacy of that story I have no idea because I don't know a lot of middle-eastern politics prior to 9/11 really.

bring back the bunkers

Hmmm...

'Some British Muslims are “conflicted in their loyalties” between the UK way of life and what some elements within their faith are telling them, Nigel Farage has said in a speech.

In an incendiary intervention in the wake of the Paris terror attacks, the Ukip leader said there must be a battle for hearts and minds within the Muslim population.

Farage said there was “a problem with some of the Muslim community in this country” and that research suggested that British Muslims experienced a “tremendous conflict and a split of loyalties”.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ting-loyalties

What's it made of titanium?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-34824774

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34150408

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/sy...lice-520642631

http://www.wsj.com/articles/paris-st...ece-1447698583

Paris Stadium Attacker Got to Europe Using Fake Syrian Passport

Man apparently posed as refugee, entered through Greek island of Leros

ATHENS—Mystery deepened over a Paris attacker who traveled to Europe via Greece and the Balkans, after French officials said Monday that the Syrian passport he had used was indeed a fake.

Authorities in France and Greece have said that fingerprints taken from the remains of a suicide bomber outside France’s national sports stadium, the Stade de France, match the prints of a man who entered Europe via the Aegean island of Leros on Oct. 3.






U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry calls the war against ISIS a "battle between civilization itself and barbarism," in comments outside the U.S. embassy in Paris during an unannounced visit Monday. Photo: Getty
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Police on Leros registered the man under the identity in the passport he showed them: Ahmad AlMohammad, 25, from Syria. The same passport was found near the man’s body outside the stadium on Friday night.

Whoever the man was, he posed as one of the many refugees fleeing Syria’s war—including the violence of Islamic State—to enter Europe through its lightly controlled frontier in the Aegean Sea.



More

A Thriving Black Market for Fake Syrian Passports
Migrant Children Carry Hopes of Their Families
EU Migrant Distribution Will Spread Terrorism, Hungary’s Prime Minister Says
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Greek authorities on islands such as Leros, Lesbos and Chios have confronted thousands of arrivals every day in recent months as refugees and other migrants make the short sea crossing from Turkey in inflatable boats. Short of staff and equipment, Greek police carry out only a simple procedure that involves taking people’s data and fingerprints, and sometimes asking them a few questions, before giving them permission to travel onward, deeper into Europe.

Upon his arrival in Leros, the Paris assailant was checked against police databases under his Syrian identity, Greek officials say. Nothing was found. Police on Leros didn’t spot that the passport was fake. A black market in Syrian passports has sprung up in Turkey as migrants try to gain the easiest possible entry into Europe, which has treated Syrian war refugees as more deserving of shelter in European Union countries than many other nationalities.

Greek authorities say the man using the name Ahmad AlMohammad took a ferry to the port of Piraeus, arriving on Oct. 8, before traveling north through the Balkans. Greece’s migration ministry said on Sunday that the man later reached Croatia. But after that, the trail appears to go cold. Officials in Austria, Germany, Italy and Hungary say they have no information about any man using that name entering their territory.

Adding further confusion, Serbia’s government has said a man by the same name entered its territory at the Presevo border crossing with Macedonia on Oct. 7—a date when Greek authorities say he was on a ferry.

Neither country’s authorities could explain the inconsistency. But Serbian media reported that another man carrying a passport with the same name and other details was arrested in the country on Saturday. Serbian authorities haven’t confirmed or denied those reports, which raised the possibility that multiple forged Syrian passports using the same name have been circulating.

All that is clear is that the man who landed in Greece got as far as Paris.

:clap1: :clap1:

We know that a percentage of these muslims ARE terrorists.What kind of madness is it to open the flood gates to more of them?
The EU is a disaster and each country needs to start taking responsibility for its own security and not be dictated to by the dangerous EU dictators.The EU is a shambles.
These muslims need to be going to the many muslim countries in the area where they will integrate a hell of a lot better.Let them bomb the crap out of each other if that's what they want to do.Not us.

We have a whole lot of home grown terrorist so I don't think closing our borders is the magic answer, the mastermind for the French attack was born in Belgium fgs, we need tighter controls though

ISIS want us to close our borders to the Syrian people. That gives them a captive population that they can continue to terrorise. Clearly the biggest check should be for the use of bogus passports. Anyone that fits into the high risk profile should either be refused entry or subject to further verification before entry is permitted. It may take longer to process those coming in, but so be it.

:clap1:

..I think that, whatever we do, whatever measures we take and whatever is put into place...as happened in Paris, we can't cover for every eventuality and if it's not this planned attack or that planned attack, then one planned attack at some point will not be thwarted, no matter how great our intelligence services are and I do believe they are...I understand also, some people's fears because of their children, I think we all feel that, it would be impossible not to but for me, my greatest fear with my own children would be that they lived their lives any differently and felt restricted in doing things that they wanted to do or became frightened to do them because of any potential possibilities....

I doubt that will happen, in the initial aftermath of any terrorist attack people feel naturally cautious, but life goes on, we could be affected by any number of things in our life time, ill heath, accidents, terrorism is just one more and it has always been there, it's nothing new, no matter how much the media try to whip up a story that "life has changed forever". New York being a case in point

That is the overarching message from the French too, that they will not allow their freedom and their liberty to be affected by terrorism.

the Russian plane shot down was a terrorist act, confirmed today
as for these borders, open borders across all of Europe is INSANE. Close them NOW. then take further steps to keep weeding out these people across europ. closed borders is not the answer or the solution, but its part of the solution and it makes it far far harder for them to move from place to place , with fake passports and going into hiding etc