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Saying that if they had been with them it would never of happened can’t be proven

The problem is you are making up different versions of the events to gain ground
You can only judge on that one situation

For example, was James bulger’s mum guilty of neglect because he got separated from his mum while shopping

Was she more interested in shopping than keeping an eye on her son


It’s easier to judge than it is to be judged

Every one who drives has been over the speed limit at one point in time, it’s only when some thing goes wrong while speeding that one hey become the devil

I don't think my analogy is that different. In both scenarios the parents are checking on the children but are not there all the time but only a sort way away. In both circumstances something happens to the children that puts them in danger that could have been avoided if they were present in the property. How is one different to the other.

Bringing up James Bulger is trying to win ground...a mum doing her shopping a dropping the hand of her child for a moment and him being snatched by evil kids who were planning to smatch someone is very very different to what the McCanns did.

I’m not trying to gain ground I’m giving you an example of a situation that is questionable like you are doing.

In your life time how many kids have disappeared kidnapped killed while on holiday ? Its virtually unheard of.

People on holiday tend to relax and let their guard down and act differently to how they would at jome

That's all I was doing and you said I was trying to gain ground with a far more similar scenario than yours :shrug:

I do not care how relaxed you are on a holiday, as a parent would you have let your guard down like that? I know I wouldn't. On holiday I'm more alert and aware of what my kid is doing for the simple reason that its a place we don't know well. As a parent you know there are hidden dangers everywhere where kids are concerned.

I will never not think it was neglect. Yea, they have paid a very heavy price and that is very sad, moreso for whatever happened to Madeleine but it was possibly so avoidable.

I could not live with myself if I had neglected to be there for my child. I certainly couldn't have written a book and used the money raised to pay my mortgage off and do interview after interview. :shrug:

i think at this point, everyones views are completely entrenched and there will be no changing them. We will never know for sure what happened to the poor girl

It only takes a second for some thing bad too happen that you never considered you are entitled to your opinion like all of us are

You can’t make a case out of what ifs or maybe’s

Would them killing themselve make this case any better

Your reasoning is ridiculous Sheriff there's no "ifs, what's or maybes" she definitely came to harm. Its not OK to leave babies unattended for long periods of time while you go out socialising just because things can happen when you don't do that too.

Sadly Very True.


I think they could have been watched
when they arrived in that hotel.

Someone may know what went on.

Bad things can sometimes still happen when you're in the same house ,or watching them . So wouldn't that make you less likely to leave them unsupervised whilst you go out drinking.

This wasn't like the parents were asleep in another room while their kid was snatched under their noses. They were out the building plain and simple.

Exactly, if we go along with the theory that it was an opportunistic kidnapper, who is he going to target? The apartment where he knows no parents are there to wake up and catch him or the apartment where he'd have to break in through a locked door with 2 adults present?

It’s not to hard to understand
People don’t live their lives waiting for bad things to happen
Bad things do happen but you don’t think they will happen to you and if you do think that way you have a mental illness.

You have a mental illness if you think something bad could happen if you leave 3 babies alone at night in an unlocked apartment in a foreign country? Babysitters are really cashing in on parents mental illnesses then

This is more about a balance of risks though, the example of allowing kids to do normal kid things "being risky anyway" so why not leave them alone in a holiday appartment.

It's like saying... "Why not walk down the middle of the road? Sure you might get hit by a car - but even if you walk on the pavement, a car might lose control, mount the kerb and hit you anyway."

Like... yes... you might get hit by a care whilst walking down the pavement minding your own business. It happens. That doesn't mean you should stop walking down pavements, it's a normal and acceptable risk... one we accept every day. But it's not comparable to a clearly reckless action like prancing along the middle of the road.

To use another risk example...

You're basically saying "there's nothing wrong with driving whilst drunk - because it's always possible that you'll crash your car anyway even stone cold sober".

Same thing. There's an inherent small risk in driving. Drink driving is reckless.

There's an inherent small risk that a child could be abducted at any time. Leaving them alone like the McCanns did... is reckless.

If a fear of something bad will happen to you and your family that stops you doing normal dad to day stuff then it’s a mental illness

Who is the bad parent those that let their children play outside knowing something bad could happen

Or the. Parent that keep their kids in the house protecting them from the outside world.

Your son does contact sports are you a bad parent for letting him do that knowing he could get hurt.

Doing something that you know is wrong is taking it down another route

Again just to clarify the above; I agree but while "letting kids play out" is normal behaviour, "Leaving toddlers alone in holiday appartments" is NOT normal behaviour, by the vast majority of people's standards.

...like leaving toddlers alone in an apartment in Portugal to go out drinking with pals. Surely!

But take into account the facts people go on holiday to relax and have a good time
You don’t going on holiday thinking your kids are going to be kidnapped or murdered because that is not normal

They made a mistake it was not purposeful neglect

It was a meal not a drinking session and they were checking on the kids throughput the evening

It’s a mental illness to not leave your kids alone multiple nights in a row to go and socialise and drink with your friends? That’s genuinely a hot take I didn’t expect any time soon got to be honest

Criminal negligence has nothing to do with purposeful harm, the basics are;

1) There was a bad outcome
2) It resulted from an action that it can be reasonably said that anyone would know is risky.

I just don't buy that many people don't know that leaving young children alone like that is risky. Any number of things could happen, from a fire to one of them simply wandering off. They weren't even 8-year-olds with some ability at self preservation, Madeleine was the oldest and she was three years old.

Even the "letting kids play out" argument falls apart. Yes it's a good idea to let kids play out. But you wouldn't let a 3 year old play in the street with their 1 year old siblings. It's madness.

Leaving babies alone in an unlocked apartment at night while you go out isn't normal behaviour though no matter how you try to spin it.

My son does contact sport yes, most sport is "contact" fun fact he's never been injured (besides a few bruises) while doing martial arts. He spent months in physio after a soccer injury though, his friends who play rugby and GAA are injured regularly.

........!!!!