I think it helping the economy is sadly a stretch; a lot of the closures may well actively damage local economies is the sad reality and I'm honestly amazed that the government went ahead with capping the machines, as they are HEAVILY taxed (government has been profiting off of machines addicts quite nicely [emoji106]).

The benefit to people with gambling addiction though is more than worth it. Especially given that, in my experience, the number of gamblers who have at least a low-level bona-fide addiction is MUCH higher than the industry would like people to believe.

I think the fact so many shops are now closing shows how exploitative the previous rules were. It's not dissimilar to curbing drug use/addiction and forcing the narcos to shutdown

Opinion piece in the Guardian

I ran a bookies for 12 years – they deserve no sympathy for these store closures
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-gamblers-jobs

Reforms to fixed-odds betting machines were always going to hit this profit-driven industry, although closures will send more gamblers online

Mon 8 Jul 2019 14.32 BST Last modified on Mon 8 Jul 2019 14.39

Since the introduction of fixed-odds betting terminals (FOBTs) in 2001, UK bookmakers have contributed towards increasing social degradation in our communities. I’ve seen it happen during my 12 years as a bookmaker branch manager. Gambling has always been a vice for people with either enough disposable income that only the winning counts – or for those drawn in by the promise of quick financial gain. But there is something sinister about FOBTs, in that they have increased access to quick winnings or losses on the high street, creating an environment more like a miniature casino.

More training time was given to the launch of a new FOBT product than to social responsibility awareness
Now bookmakers blame stricter regulation of FOBTs for the anticipated closure of about a quarter of betting shops. In my experience, the machines account for about 50% of the profit in a typical branch of a high-street bookmaker, and in some cases much more. Take a walk down your local high street and you may well find multiple outlets of the same company not far from each other – often the shop has a surface area much larger than is needed for its customer base. The larger shops were typically taken on long-term leases in anticipation of the government relaxing the “four FOBTs per shop” rule. As the legislation was never changed, the only way a bookmaker could effectively increase its FOBT market share in the high street was by opening up more branches relatively close to one another. This allowed some bookmakers to have 12 or more FOBTs along one stretch of road.

I can tell you that in my experience, these companies view social responsibility as a check-box exercise, simply allowing them to keep trading. More training time was given to the launch of a new FOBT product than to social responsibility awareness. If bookmakers followed the mantra of “only bet what you can afford to lose”, there would be no high-street bookmakers. Some of the busiest and most profitable shops I have managed have been in areas of social deprivation – not the ones in the likes of Knightsbridge or Chelsea. Bookies thrive on desperation.

What I have found most concerning is seeing middle management get annoyed when their most profitable customer self-excludes, dismissing concerns about the source of a customer’s funds with either “we can’t prove they don’t have savings” or “don’t ask too many questions”. The online division may completely ignore a retail manager’s concerns about a customer’s mental wellbeing, effectively allowing that customer to go home and gamble irresponsibly online. That then pushes staff to poach high-rolling customers from other companies by harassing them with free bets, or by standing outside another branch with promotions and offers.

Where does social responsibility begin to fit into this business model? It doesn’t. Of course a business needs to make a profit to be successful. But bookmakers have been shortsighted, drawn in by FOBTs’ quick profits and gambling on legislation either remaining in place or being relaxed. Years of austerity, combined with an ever-widening wage gap, have perhaps made them a subject of frustration. Had they hedged their bets and acted more responsibly, bookmakers would not be in the situation they are facing now. “Greed” is the appropriate word, without a care for how their financial gains continue to destroy thousands of families.

Now that FOBTs have had restrictions imposed on them, cutting their maximum stake per spin from £100 to £2, it’s only natural that the bookmakers will have to shed hundreds of unprofitable shops. These sites will either be peripheral ones that were set up purely for those extra four FOBTs or branches where the sports turnover has taken a hit due to a lack of investment in that area. In Ireland you see many high-street bookmakers continue to make a profit from a sports-centric business model, as FOBTs are not legal there.

Many will argue that the closure of these betting shops will benefit society as a whole. I would counter that a lot of the FOBT customers will instead move their losses online, while thousands more will suffer due to redundancy. If I were a betting man, my money would be on those shops in low-earning residential areas being the most likely to remain open in any case, continuing to show a healthy profit. Gambler and employee alike, this will ultimately affect those who can afford to lose the least.

• Owen Rees worked for a UK bookmaker for 12 years and is now a stay-at-home father

I've not tied up any knots. You're the one misunderstanding what I've written.

I didn't say the economy wouldn't be affected. I said the customers who either willingly move away from stores or are forced to due to store closures will most likely go online, therefore not having much of an impact outside of the industry. Therefore, based off that, I found your hypothesis of the economy gaining signifanctly less likely.

The big stakers, however, will be turned away from online gambling. The people I refer to are a minority tens of thousand of pounds a month gamblers. Not your more casual gamblers who make up a majority of the customer base in my own experience. But, again, there's no real guarantee that someone who is hooked on gambling to that degree will not find some way of emptying it all into FOBT/Bandit machines instead of spending all that cash on something else.

Literally all I said Kizzy, in two separate posts.

I hope the addicts and problem gamblers benefit from the legislation too. But as long as gambling exists the temptation will be there and, sadly, the industry as a whole isn't budging.

We all know how adept companies are at avoiding tax though however heavily that industry is taxed? Maybe the govt aren't finding they're getting the cut of these high stake machines they were expecting? As you say were it such a cash cow would they be taking action? The ethical high Road is not what the modern conservative is known for. It prob is a stretch I guess the addicts will have to access support before any money they were giving the bookies would be spent in other ways, saved or reinvested.

I get that you don't feel it will benefit the economy you have stated that several times... personally I still do maybe it won't be instantaneous but as those impulsive high stake customers are prevented from using the fobts to lose vast amounts of money in time they may seek help or find a new outlet fir their addiction?..

No, I don't feel it would to any significant extent. But I haven't said my own viewpoint of it means that it wouldn't. I'll be honest and say I don't know. Just from my own perspective I don't think it likely.

They can still lose vast amounts of money. We had a few come in and vow it wasn't the same anymore and they'd never play again. But they're compulsion to play has broght them back and glued them to the shop seats for hours at a time.

I would like to think the majority of them would get help and spend all that cash on something worthwhile.

Yea its really bad also when I have a win coral will give be a free £2 bet for back jack or roulette I think there idea is that if I lose the £2 I keep betting till it all gone but I withdraw it so that don't happen


Do you still gamble or have you given up

Ha. I 'gave up' online gambling in October last year whe I signed upto gamstop thinking it would be a useful tool in stopping me gambling, as advertised. I wish that meant I had not done it but no..still an issue at times. Its only very certain times though, its not really something I think about constantly anymore, more..lapses that lead to like..10 hour night bouts of just being utterly ridiculous. Seems to be generally when am medicated, as have said, I also have to be very very bored, usually in a optomistic mood, sometimes have recently been stressing about something I want to buy/pay for but do not have enough cash, and then with these things present, also the voice in the back of my head saying 'no dont, it wont end well' also disappears..when I think 'ah, I could try my luck'. The once the first deposit of the night is made and the actual spinning starts, well at that point am beyond reason. Even if the voice comes back I argue with it about how 'nah, it will be fine, a big win has to come soon' and such :bored: Ugh.

Its even worse recently, well since October, than it ever was. Because I know I have no chance of winning anything at all, as anywhere that lets me play will pull the 'excluded card' if I do happen to win. Yet still do it. And cannot really explain it.

I have found out through personal experience that gamstop is absolutely not a decent tool for problem gamblers, if anything, it makes things worse as it just gives operators who do still let you play despite all crowing about responsible gambling and such..yet another excuse to deny legitimate winnings. So instead of having a problem where you spend more than you can afford, but sometimes get a big win which 'makes up for it', you have situations where you have not had a win paid in 9 months, but still deposit even though you know wins are at best highly unlikely to be paid D:

You need to go on the news or talk to news papers this needs highlighting

So you can deposit your money and lose but if you win they keep it for the best part of a year?... and they may never pay you because youre excluded if you try to withdraw? Wow :/
I did something silly, turns out addictions are transferable... a guy at work told me about his gf winning £500 on online bingo... so I had a go, and after a bit I won £500! Thing is then I was like a mad thing, staying up all night and within a week had given them £300 back! :( I told my daughter what was going on and my son deleted my account for me... but they don't make it easy to do, they ask you why you want to...if you'd rather set limits it was a mare :(

There might try and email you free bets just delete it

In a week?! Would have taken me a few hours to play that back :laugh:

And yup, thats the situation. Its stupid, and I am stupid for keep going on them too but..I cant hep being stupid it seems :D

If work hadn't got in the way who knows lol... your not stupid addiction is horrible and you are NOT alone these places prey on us if they didn't market themselves to hook people in like they do , give you a little win a a sweetener then sit back when your depositing your wages they'd be out of business.

This is 100% correct, and there's also literally NO "profile" of a problem gambler when it comes to machines. Tell me that someone is hooked on the horses or dogs and I can tell you that 90%+ of them are going to be men aged between 50 and 70. Tell me that someone has a football betting problem and it's a good bet that they're a younger male, often age 21 - 35.

Machines? It's a **** show. Guys who have just turned 18, girls on their way out to a club, older blokes who used to bet over the counter but now funnel all their spare cash into the things, mums out shopping with their kids knocking at the door for them to hurry up, little old ladies from the bingo hall. People in expensive suits, people in labourer gear, people who have clearly just rolled off their couch after a joint. Literally anyone you point at in the street :shrug:.

I just saw this 2S and I could practically have written it. 9.5 years in the industry, 4.5 managing. Though I think they're actually quite lenient in their assessment :joker: "More training time was given to the launch of a new FOBT product than to social responsibility awareness."

MORE time? A massive understatement. "Social Responsibility" is a 10 minute training slideshow in an app with a questionnaire at the end... and most people just copy each other's answers. The launch of new machines is treated like the event of the decade with MONTHS of promotion and planning.

I not going to bet till the new football season starts I think its the 3 angust

Just stick with a nice little £5, 5 or 6 game, acca. You can't really go wrong there. A nice little chunk if you're lucky and who really misses a fiver.

Anything more than that and you're heading into murky waters.

A fair few times through my life I have 'popped in' to the bandits on my way to meet friends and ended up having to go home rather than meet anyone, or make up some excuse saying I haven't been paid so can anyone lend me anything. :bored: Whenever I go in, as you say its a mix of people. The low stakes ones tend to be mainly little old ladies sitting there all day from what I have seen. But anything above like 10p per spin, its all people. I once saw my doctor in there, shovelling hundred in..its insane. And as I keep saying I know its insane, yet I still convince myself I can just pop in, try a tenner and maybe come away loaded, and if not, its only a tenner. If only it stayed at only a tenner tbh..

Vicky you would be flabbergasted at how much money some of those little old ladies funnel into those machines. £20 after £20 note on £2 slots for an hour.

Yeah..one was moaning to be once as she was apparently 180 down..while playing on a 10p machine. The jackpot was a fiver..and she was still chasing her moneyback. Felt so sorry for her.

Ahh I had a friend at University who was like that on the oldstyle bandits. He'd happily spend £40 chasing a £25 jackpot :think:.

I have done that and much much more. Have been known to spend hundreds on the 25 jackpot partytimes. Evil things :joker:

To be fair, the only profitable gambling I've ever done was on a clearly broken £25 jackpot. Every weekend me and a couple of friends used to go to the local pub (when we were like 16 :joker: ) with £5 each, drop the £25 jackpot twice and have a nice little night out. There was a feature that dropped the jackpot every time, obviously a bug of some sort. We did it for nearly 10 months, being careful not to tip them off by getting greedy, and then some tit discovered the same thing and dropped the jackpot 4 times in a row. The next week the machine was gone :bawling:.

Gambling is such a dangerous addicition as unlike other addictions, alcohol, drugs etc it has no outward symptoms. I have heard of really wealthy professional types literally going bankrupt or turning to fraud to fund it and no-one, even those closest to them were aware they even had a problem. Its frightening really.

I don't think mobile type app adverts should be allowed on TV either.