We did not cone from Any God.

One word :

DINOSAURS.

Hahahahahahah!

One would figure they would pop up in the bible somewhere, you know. And you are seriously deluded, and this is a fact kids, if you think Christianity has a huge number of adherents because they allllllllll participated in coherent online philosophical debates, and not because of ... i dunno ... tradition? Handing down of family values/religion? The millions of ordinary people who are christian by default because they don't bother to question?

And where is Jesus? Why should this debate even be taking place? What about people in the far reaches of the globe who have never even heard of him? Are they too going to suffer eternal damnation because they don't understand God's infinite love for them? [irony on a base level, but it's a hoot].

Why leave it to be written down on such an easily edited format?

Why visit such a small number of people in his lifetime?

Why attribute every possible good thing that happens in the world to being a 'miracle' when ignoring all the bad that happens?

And WHO I ask again, recorded what Jesus said in the garden? I thought all the apostles were taking a snooze?

If Jesus IS God, fair enough, but I would not put him in charge of sending out memos in MY ****ing office block :joker::joker::joker:.

Your thinking too narrow. We definately came about in some esoteric/mystical and scientifically unexplainable way. Science cant boot itself up from zero. A car cant build itself from nothing in an empty warehouse.

Probe Eight

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA240_.jpg

Read this Great Book.

I have read it, and I think it is complete rubbish. Richard Dawkins is a self serving moron and he gives most atheists a bad name. At least the Bible is great fantasy and is big enough to be used as a doorstop.

Once again, I ask you, do you believe nothing came from nothing? Do you believe zero multiplied by zero can give you a number?

He is No Moron


It is a Great Book.

You can come from a Fish
Still has Fecking All to do with a Fable Bible
or Fake God
Utter Fact.

Yes, and what did the fish come from? And more to the point, what did the first ever particle of anything come from? Your ignoring the entire point. You seem completely incapable of debate. Your posing it as if it is Dawkins Vs. God and The Bible Vs. Science. It's not that black and white.

I have no time to be arguing with children. Run along and play worship at the church of Dawkins.

No Worship or Child here


Nothing is Black or White.

But there is No God.

Arista is a Robot. YOure wasting your time. HE doent really have any argument, and is incapable of analysing another posters arguments. HE just has a few cliche statements, that he posts everytime these subjects come up. Check his background, you wil see, its really mo use, if you want to have a well thought out, intelligent debate. Just come up with some cliches, and yall can go back and forth.

Utter Bollocks.

LOL, bang on the money. I pity the fool :joker:.

I guess some people jumped off the evolution train early. Life in the city.

That's taking my post WAY too literally.

The church controls the thoughts of people.
Why is there so much shame placed on women in the world of work and their sexuality and the way they expose their sexual behaviour?
Because the christian church deemed it to be shameful for a woman to suceed in work.
If she does she's a bitch.
And the shame in relation to sex.
If she's as sexual as a man, she's a *****.

It's the same with the shame placed on Gay people.
Christian's believe it to be against God's will for people to be gay.
Therefore the thought process of those that follow christinaity is undoubetly impacted upon by Christianity's opposition to Gay people.
I.e. a chrisitan person walks down a street and see's two women kissing.
Christian then thinks "Oh god. That's SO wrong and unnatural".
Really general example, but it's true.

It's a control of thoughts, ideas and actions as I said before.
Not a control on people to go to mass on a sunday FFS.
:rolleyes:

And as I said, I think the that Christianity has deviated SO much from what Jesus was probably on about, that it has become it's own thing. It's own monster.

Good you people are not deluded. Anyone who believes is god is deluded lol

Why is it when there is a debate about the nature of God those who say there is no God resort to insults in either their first or second posts (and subsequent posts)? ie fool, deluded and so forth..

It always suggests the same thing, poor knowledge of the subject matter and a lack of thought about what knowledge is available to them.

It is like playing football with your laces tied together!

Deluded is not an insult lol Just a fact...

Yeh same old unbalanced arguments I see. My question is if some guy finishes his shift at the taxi firm and then goes home and cooks dinner for the homeless in his area because of his devotion to Jesus...are you gonna call this guy a poor deluded fool? Well if yer are Im glad there are poor deluded fools about in this world

So he has to do it in the name of Jesus? Not in kindness? Try again Netto. Bye.

Im talking about real people here who have been inspired by the teachings of Jesus and the Bible I saw him on TV the other week. You have the cheek to call that man deluded for his beliefs, shame on you.

Netto, basically all you seem to be bothered about is getting one over on me. You do not actually care. Should not take the name of some Rabbi who lived 2000 years ago to feed the poor.

What the hell does it matter to you why he does it? And I think you'll find Ive always argued the same points time and time again since I joined TIBB...you are but one of a long line of ignoramuses

All you do is swear and insult, and say bahahah.

Right ok so no rational argument then lol

Don't think you could handle it ;) I'm not talking about Religious people, i'm talking about the Religion.

Well the religion came about for political reasons. Jesus was a Jew like Probeeight said. I just think people like Jesus were good men trying to do good and most Christians follow that train of thought and arent fanatical about it and while there may or may not be a god if theyre doing good it doesnt matter does it? And some are fanatical irrational and misinterpret and twist the bible for their own ends just like some Muslims do

Jesus never intended to start another Religion.

Mark 16:15 (New International Version)

15: He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.

Don't give me Bible quotes.

No he was spreading the word of his faith...the Jewish one

Yep.

Blimey we just agreed on something...the world may implode hold on!

;)

Is the same response as the case for the accused saying "dont give me real evidence"

FAIL

If you class the Biblr as real evidence then you must be an idiot.

You don't need an excuse to be nice to people. His great works do not disprove the fact that the Bible is not factually accurate. There is no room for debate on that, it is simply a fact.

This is like Christians who say ''where do atheists get there morals from?''. So your telling me if it were not for the Bible you would be happy to kill?

One thing the major world religions do get right is ''treat others as you would like them to treat you''. The golden rule. Most of us are born with a natural sense of this.

Also, I provided numerous arguments LeatherTrumpet might or might not like to tackle. It's a shame he lets his religion down by resorting to abstract point dodging.



Here are some points in relation to using the Bible as a source for litetral truth :



* The Bible is a hodepodge collection of oral history, poetry, legend, myth, geneology, prophesy and visions, some of which date back to nomadic tribes in the Middle East. The problem with oral histories is that they change over time, and there is no way to verify what the original version of any of the accounts in the work might have looked like.

* The oral histories that were eventually included in the Bible were written down by different groups of people over centuries, and copied by hand numerous times, introducing changes and inaccuracies in the process as with any text that is copied (witness the variations in Shakespeare's folios).

* Numerous versions of chapters that have been included in the Bible by various groups (Jews, Gnostics and Christians) exist, and arbitrary decisions have been made as to which ones to include in what is accepted as the modern Christian version of the Bible. Chapters that have at one time or another been included and then removed from the Bible are called the Apocryopha. Some of these, most notably what are believed to be Gnostic texts, differ radically from the currently accepted version of the Bible.

* Both the Old Testament and the New have numerous internal contradictions that render any attempt to deem words of the Bible literally true impossible. For example, there are two different accounts of creation in the Old Testament and major contradictions among accounts of the life of Jesus in the New Testament.

* Linguistic and textual analysis of the Bible has demonstrated that some chapters have elisions or additions made by different authors, making a determination of the 'original' or 'true' version of the Bible problematic.

* There is ample evidence that some elisions and additions to some chapters were made for political reasons, or to express a religious viewpoint that differed from that held by the original author of the chapter.

* Historical sources show that the New Testament is factually inaccurate on matters including the reign of Herod and the Roman census.


And here are some of the many acts forbidden in this moral scripture. I doubt there is a man on the face of the earth who follows the Bible word for word. You cant. It's contradictory.


* Consuming blood, blood in meat is not exempt. (Genesis 9:4)
* Performing any work on the sabbath.(Exodus 20:10)
* Cooking a goat in its mothers milk.(Exodus 23:19)
* Eating fat.(Leviticus 3:17)
* The consumption of pork.(Leviticus 11:7-8)
* Eating a fellowship offering more than three days old.(Leviticus 19:5-8)
* Bestiality.(Leviticus 19:19)
* Planting more then one kind of seed in a field.(Leviticus 19:19)
* Wearing clothing woven of more then one kind of cloth.(Leviticus 19:19)
* Cutting the hair on the sides of your head(Leviticus 19:27)
* Tattoos.(Leviticus 19:28)
* Consulting a psychic or spiritualist.(Leviticus 19:31)
* Being a psychic or spiritualist, punishable by death.(Leviticus 20:27)
* Touching the dead carcass of a pig.(Deuteronomy 14:8)
* Eating aquatic creatures lacking fins or scales.(Deuteronomy 14:9-10)
* Transvestism.(Deuteronomy 22:5)
* Consuming the meat of strangled animals.(Acts 15:28-29)
* For women, speaking in church.(1 Corinthians 14:34-35)
* If you are a slave, disobedience.(Ephesians 6:5)


Have fun, kids!

Get them told! Nice post.

And just because I am in the mood, for all the ladies out there...

* Corinthians, 14:34-35: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

* Exodus 21:7-8: And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her."

* Genesis 3:16: "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."

* Genesis 19:8 "Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes"

* Leviticus 19:20: "And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free."

* Leviticus 27:3-7: "And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver... And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels. And if it be from five years old even unto twenty years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male twenty shekels, and for the female ten shekels. And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver. And if it be from sixty years old and above; if it be a male, then thy estimation shall be fifteen shekels, and for the female ten shekels."

* Deuteronomy 21:11-14: And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife. Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails. And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will..."

* Genesis 25:1 "Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah." [Only problem is that Abraham already had a wife (Sarah), and an abandoned concubine (Hagar).]

* 26:34, 29:29 "And Esau was forty years old when he took to wife Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Bashemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite. ... Then went Esau unto Ishmael, and took unto the wives which he had Mahalath the daughter of Ishmael Abraham's son, the sister of Nebajoth, to be his wife."

* Genesis 32:22: "And he rose up that night, and took his two wives, and his two womenservants, "

* Genesis 36:6: "And Esau took his wives...."

As Artista said. God Delusion, sorted.

I must stress again that it is my belief that both atheism and religion are as bad as the other. People just cant open there minds to the alternatives to the Abrahamic God. When people ask me why I believe in a 'God' they think I believe in a sentient being living in the clouds who cares if I masturbate on Tuesdays. The 'force' that got us here could take any form. Our consciousness might not even be capable of understanding or fathoming this form. I am a big proponent of the idea that this life could be a very small part of a big deal, or that it may simply be a dream in a never ending episode of experiencing one mass subconscious subjectively. The possibilities are endless.

But everything cant possibly come from nothing. Give your mind a little more credit. It's an amazing thing that knows it's own existence. That alone is proof of something for me.

And that's why Richard Dawkins is a moron.

No, what this world needs is a quiet spiritual awakening in private and with each other, through the medium of reflection and love, and away from Church religion, which serve merely as means of identifying oneself. Strength in numbers.

Even religions message of anti-materialism is a fad when you realise you have merely substituted a sacred text for your new material fetish. The Bible looks great. It's big, it's black and it's golden. It looks awesome and convinces you through the medium of aesthetics that it is indeed a good thing.

In reality, no man can teach you the way. Every available existing religious path in the world currently simply evolved from a living, ordinary man or group of living, ordinary men who had there own opinions that caught on until we believed them to be near fact, worthy of faith.

I would recommend at this point, of course, to getting an group of insightful friends, retreat to nature, munching down some psilocybin mushrooms that nature conveniently left there with us and take some drumming or rhythmic apparatus with you [after all, life is merely one long rhythm of impermanence, and music is a creative reflection on that. Music is sacred, folks. It makes you feel things. We have a natural sense of rhythm].

Of course, you could always stay in and watch the X Factor. The choice is yours.

I do not deny that there could be a god, small chance. But to bluntly say there is not would be as bad as them.

I never said the bible was factually accurate, I said I dont see whats wrong with someone following the teachings of the bible and following Jesus. Theres ways of living that benefit humanity and ways that dont...Its within us to follow either path, we arent inherently good or bad, whats wrong with Christians following the same path as Jesus? Thats what am sayin man