This is when they throw in the word FAITH! Apparently we are just supposed to have faith in his existence - that is what we are being tested on! Since when does not having enough faith in something/someone constitute a crime and make us not worthy to be saved! Extremely harsh - rather makes a mockery of the idea of Christianity as far as I am concerned. Illogical rubbish!

The pope doesn't help himself either with his whole reject of condoms and not saying enough on the paedophile issue.

I love the "to control the masses line"

You hear it a lot from people who have never taken the time to study religion.

Can you explain what you mean. Who is controlling, what masses and what bits of say the Christian religion do you refer too?

Ah Good to see LT SOP(Leather Trumpet Standard Operating Procedure) No 3 - when comments or questions are asked of you in a thread you find difficult or havent got a clue how to answer, ignore it. Followed by SOP No 4 try to take the thread off in a new direction on a subject by introduciong a comment plucked out of the air you are prepared to argue on.

Who was on about religion controlling the masses?

Nice tactics mate but come on answer the questions asked of you, at least have an attempt at answering some of the comments, criticisms and questions in posts 70 - 82

"There is more chance of a spirit realm than there being a god. I think religion is the biggest made up nonsense to control the masses." Post#80

What about the comments in the previous 10 posts, no comment or answer?

which question?

if you mean your post:

"So then what about people who lived and died before christianity was introduced to the area they live, they have been predestined to an eternity away from gods love?What about people who adhere to a different faith, for example followers of Islam, the Jewish Faith, are they in fact worshipping false idols and as such again lining up an eternity away from god? Or do you consider they worship god just in a different way? What about Seikhs, Hindus, Buddhists etc?If for example you think that following Christ is the only way to "salvation" who do you blame for muslims not converting to christianity? The Muslims themselves or the Christians who failed to convert them by either not being good missionaries or even not being good enough christians to set an example others would follow? In which case who would God save, the bad christians who failed to convince the muslims to convert or the muslims themselves?Or if its a case of so long as you follow a god and adhere to some form of belief will you be saved and sit in God's presence? Does that mean that those of another religion or even those that dont follow a true established religion will also be saved? "


You did not address that screed to anyone you just spent 30 minutes googling things and then posted it, off topic completely, in the thread?


Wildcat asked about predestination and I put him in touch with that section on the carm website. If you have questions about that content then go to the website and read some more as they cover it really well.

Oh i see so your own personal beliefs are exactly as everything posted on that site? Thats good thanks for that. As for it being off topic, wasnt the post following the current line of the thread? Actually I ws looking forward to another patronising comment from you in response to Niamhxo.

And no I didnt google anything for that post. But go on then try and prove me wrong, you will notice the word I used is try beause that preconditions the situation with failure, because the post came directly from me not any other website. You see unlike you i dont need to refer to a website to back up my beliefs.

a simple sorry would have been more gracious rather than that diatribe of self-justification.

Thats okay LT I accept your apology

yes, you see have having "Faith" is all well and good but it's actually the men who wrote the bible you're putting your faith in not God because they're the ones you have to believe are telling the truth about God

if you are referring to the Gospels then there is no doubt in the minds of any serious historian that what is written is what happened. What you have to decide is, ok they saw this but what does it mean. There is little faith in over 5000 documents some going as far back as 120AD. There is a lot more faith involved in a whole myriad of early historical (non-religious) figures.

No, you're not listening to what I'm saying though, I understand that these people existed but what I'm saying is why should I believe what these men are saying to me? It's the same as asking me to believe L Ron Hubbard imo.

it is simply all about Jesus, who he was and what he said. I think many people struggle with the whole God idea and i get that but Jesus was and is God so a study of what he is should answer many questions.

Yes I believe there was a man called Jesus and another bunch of men believed he was the son of God/God but this doesn't prove to me that he was actually who/what they said he was

What would prove this to you?

God appearing to me and telling me himself, of course if this happened to me I'd probably be sectioned!

what if God was with you when you last looked at your children asleep?

Maybe he was but I didn't see him so how could I know? because you told me he was?

perhaps the Holy Spirit was in you, the love that you felt. You have to get beyond the big guy in the clouds with the beard.

maybe he was and maybe it was just my own love, who knows? this is why I would class myself as agnostic

i suppose you ability to fly makes you a bit special

no.

well obviously yes, yes I do.

easter is about chocolate not religion

:sleep:

I will be going to church on Sunday, not because it is Easter, but because I am obeying the command by inference to meet with the saints every first day of the week as I do every week(Acts 20:7)

By the way, they way the Apostle Paul used the word saints in his letters meant Christians, not dead people that have been "canonised" by some person declared to be the leader of the church in violation of Colosians 1:18

The word Easter actually comes from the Anglo Saxon pagan god Eostre and is also where we get the word oestrogen.

I will therefore be in church on Easter Sunday by default.

No,don't even celebrate Easter anymore,besides buying an occasional Creme Egg.

Have a nice time Sticks! Say a prayer for us sinners! :)

Eostre / Ostara was a goddess

Canonisation didnt really start till the 10th century, however by the year 100 A.D., Christians were honoring other Christians who had died, and asking for their intercession. Many people think that honoring saints was something the Church set up later, but it was part of Christianity from the very beginning. As a matter of fact, this practice came from a long-standing tradition in the Jewish faith of honoring prophets and holy people with shrines. The first saints were those people mentioned in the Gospels as being relatives friends and followers of Jesus then along came the early martyrs.

There is no 'commandment by inference' in acts 20:7 it simply talks of a meeting of christians.

Paul the Apostle? Interesting phraseology he wasnt actually a disciple of Jesus however he is venerated by christians, why? Because he shaped the christian faith as it is today, but who was he to decide what way the early church should be run? Jesus didnt say "hey dude you are to speak for me, when these eejits who i taught for 3 years get it wrong", did he?

Whose authority was he acting on? I suppose you could say God's but you have no way of proving that.

Paul made decisions about early church doctrine, that allowed the early church to be open to gentiles, about Jesus' ministry, his writings shaped the christian mass/eucharist, he especially taught about the divinity of Jesus and thats the interesting point, it could be said without him the Christian faith would ever have been no more than a troublesome Jewish Sect.


As for Colossians 1:18 this doesnt state that there shouldn't be a spiritual head of the church on earth nor does it contradict authorising Peter as the rock/head of the church. Its simply describing that all things done for God are done IN jesus Christ.


In fact there isnt anything in Pauls works in the New Testament where Paul actually denies or undermines Peter's authority over the church, though he does at one time criticise (rebuke) him for the treatment of gentile Christians.

This