Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar! (Post 3820948)

Sorry I forgot you are very familiar with anti muslim sites. Yes Wombai we are because theyre really isnt a major issue with a few 1000 women in this country wearing burqua's and identification, theyre just isnt, and to enforce an outright ban is ludicrous and very very Un British

Originally Posted by WOMBAI (Post 3820946)

hahaha so what are you ****ing going on about?

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar! (Post 3820953)

Funny that - was thinking exactly the same of you! :hugesmile:

Originally Posted by WOMBAI (Post 3820959)

So you werent banging on about people wishing to dismiss and destroy British Culture? okaaay Bob

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar! (Post 3820991)

Do you not understand that by saying that Britain is now a multi-cultural society without an cultural identity of its own - that is what you are doing! Your posts suggest that you don't think much of traditional British culture and you seem to delight in the idea that multi-culturalism has 'knocked it off its perch' and taken over! It hasn't!

This is Britain with a society of many diverse cultures - with British culture being the dominant force - as it should be in Britain - just as I would expect Japanese culture to dominate Japan, and Arab culture to dominate countries in the Middle-East!

Like most of those of British descent - I love my country and its culture - it is my identity - and I have no desire to see that culture no longer recognised as predominantly British - which is why I choose to live in Britain and not some Middle Eastern country!

Despite how some seem to want to eradicate Britain's traditional cultural identity in favour of some multi-cultural wasteland, with no innate individual identity - Britain will always remain British with a traditional British culture and way of life - because us Brits can be a stubborn bunch too!

Originally Posted by angus58 (Post 3821004)

Typical left wing woolly minded liberalism - anyone who dares to speak out about something like this is accused of xenophobia, racism etc. No wonder this country is in such a bloody mess when we are not able to have reasonable debates about things that affect us all without idiots trying to stifle opposition with such accusations.

During the 70s and 80s at the height of the IRA bombings everyone was searched going in and out of all public buildings, and all waste bins were removed from station concourses and pillar boxes were sealed up. An OTT reaction to terrorist threats? Maybe, but it sure as hell made me feel safer when I was working in Central London. There was an outcry at the time about civil liberties being infringed because of the searches, but in times of crisis national security supersedes all other concerns. Try living in London or any other major city where the threat of terrorism is always in the back of your mind.

The Burkha is not a NECESSARY item of clothing,and I guarantee the FMs mouthing off the most about allowing women to wear it are MEN. If their argument is that the wearing of the burkha is not illegal, then it's high time it was made so, since national security and the rights of all other citizens to feel safe in public places, should be put above the rights of a minority of people who wish to wear it. Especially since the wearing of this garment is purely a matter of choice, NOT a religious OR a cultural requirement. How about a bit of commonsense for a change?

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar! (Post 3821012)

Most of us do feel safe though I dont break out in a sweat when Im sat next to a woman in a burqa, JeeZ...you try having some common sense and proportion

...also not a man and also live in a major multicultural city, the threat of terrorism is something I rarely think about being a bit rational and all (and also waiting to be called a wooly liberal hahaha)

Originally Posted by Shasown (Post 3821022)

Good the hear that compromise is still highly evident on the forum.
How about on the street in buses and trains etc if a woman wished to wear a burqa then she can.

However if it is required to be removed for genuine reasons of security. At airports, banks etc then she has to remove it in order to use that place.

Incidentally if it is simply for security and because terrorists may use it as a disguise are you also going to call for the removal of sunglasses, beards, false hairpieces, liquid latex etc as they have all been used by terrorists and criminals for years.

If the burka is banned in public then shouldnt hoods etc always be down, caps etc not be allowed to be worn? I would say more people are wrongly intimidated by youths wearing clothes that hide their identity rather than some female doing a darth vader impersonation because she or her family feel that her face may bring out feelings of lust in a man.

Originally Posted by Shasown (Post 3821022)

Good the hear that compromise is still highly evident on the forum.
How about on the street in buses and trains etc if a woman wished to wear a burqa then she can.

However if it is required to be removed for genuine reasons of security. At airports, banks etc then she has to remove it in order to use that place.

Incidentally if it is simply for security and because terrorists may use it as a disguise are you also going to call for the removal of sunglasses, beards, false hairpieces, liquid latex etc as they have all been used by terrorists and criminals for years.

If the burka is banned in public then shouldnt hoods etc always be down, caps etc not be allowed to be worn? I would say more people are wrongly intimidated by youths wearing clothes that hide their identity rather than some female doing a darth vader impersonation because she or her family feel that her face may bring out feelings of lust in a man.

Originally Posted by Shasown (Post 3821022)

Good the hear that compromise is still highly evident on the forum.
How about on the street in buses and trains etc if a woman wished to wear a burqa then she can.

However if it is required to be removed for genuine reasons of security. At airports, banks etc then she has to remove it in order to use that place.

Incidentally if it is simply for security and because terrorists may use it as a disguise are you also going to call for the removal of sunglasses, beards, false hairpieces, liquid latex etc as they have all been used by terrorists and criminals for years.

If the burka is banned in public then shouldnt hoods etc always be down, caps etc not be allowed to be worn? I would say more people are wrongly intimidated by youths wearing clothes that hide their identity rather than some female doing a darth vader impersonation because she or her family feel that her face may bring out feelings of lust in a man.

Originally Posted by WOMBAI (Post 3821018)

Maybe you are simply too 'naive' and idealistic to fully comprehend the potential threat to our society! What about the recent planned attacks that were thwarted by intelligence - how do you know that hiding their identities behind burkas weren't a part of that plan! You don't! It won't be the last!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ne-strike.html

All I can say - is that if and when there is another attack in Britain - I hope any unfortunate victims are the loved ones of those whose attitudes contributed to allowing it to happen and not of those totally opposed to allowing anything that increases the risks!

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar! (Post 3821037)

Im anything but naive, I just dont get carried away with media sensationalism, and reactionary political propoganda. I am probably as likely to get attacked by a burqa covered Jihadi as run over by a bus, thats rationalism not idealism....and you fail to see how your reactionary position WOULD increase the risks

Originally Posted by WOMBAI (Post 3821038)

When it does happen - tell that to the families of the victims! :sleep:

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar! (Post 3821039)

Rite O Wombat

Originally Posted by Shasown (Post 3821022)

Good the hear that compromise is still highly evident on the forum.
How about on the street in buses and trains etc if a woman wished to wear a burqa then she can.

However if it is required to be removed for genuine reasons of security. At airports, banks etc then she has to remove it in order to use that place.

Incidentally if it is simply for security and because terrorists may use it as a disguise are you also going to call for the removal of sunglasses, beards, false hairpieces, liquid latex etc as they have all been used by terrorists and criminals for years.

If the burka is banned in public then shouldnt hoods etc always be down, caps etc not be allowed to be worn? I would say more people are wrongly intimidated by youths wearing clothes that hide their identity rather than some female doing a darth vader impersonation because she or her family feel that her face may bring out feelings of lust in a man.

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar! (Post 3821037)

Im anything but naive, I just dont get carried away with media sensationalism, and reactionary political propoganda. I am probably as likely to get attacked by a burqa covered Jihadi as run over by a bus, thats rationalism not idealism....and you fail to see how your reactionary position and the resulting increased marginalisation WOULD increase the risks

Originally Posted by angus58 (Post 3821050)

Sunglasses, wigs, latex etc certainly DISGUISE people's appearance but the burkha completely annihilates all evidence of identity, so to use those as an example is frankly ridiculous. Furthermore, I disagree that the burkha should be allowed on public transport or in any public buildings which are closed environments. Compromise is not a one way street - what some FMs seem to be demanding is that, once again, we must submit to other people's cultural norms even if we may find them offensive, abhorrent or downright dangerous. No-one dragged anyone to this country kicking and screaming, they came voluntarily, and they should have the commonsense and courtesy to comply with the laws, rules and regulations the rest of us have to abide by.

I am also totally fed up with MEN being so blase about this truly abhorrent visual sign of female oppression. I will say it again - no man would ever submit to such an indignity.

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 3821055)

Banning a woman from wearing something out of her own free will - that is oppression.

You still dont undertsand that banning a religious garment is an infringement on civil liberties, and an infringement on religious freedom. And before you go on about how it is not techincally a requriement I'll reiterate that neither are crucuifixes, nor is the kippah for Jews. By saying that I'm not saying that the burqa and the kippah are similar, not at all, but they are both ways of somebody expressing their religion, and that is a right that freedom of religion grants.

We are not submitting to others cultural norms. If you find the burqa abhorrent and offensive then that you really do need to get over yourself and your petty attitude where you think you have the right to decide what clothing is and isnt acceptable. We are a multicultural and secular society, whether you and your BNP, Daily Mail-reading buddies like it or not, and we should therefore be tolerant of other religious and cultural customs, instead of holding them in contempt.

The number of women who wear burqas is tiny, no more than a thousand or two. Just live and let live.

Originally Posted by angus58 (Post 3821138)

How *******ing dare you accuse me of having anything to do with the vile BNP -that is the typical and predictable reaction of left wing lunatics towards anyone who disagrees with their wooly minded liberalism. It's people like you who have turned this country into the mess it is now in. Well I've news for you, the general public are no longer being beaten into submission because they fear being called racists. Such vile accusations have stifled any meaningful debates on uncontrolled immigration and the clash of hundreds of different cultures in our inner cities. Even the useless Labour Party have now admitted that their policies on uncontrolled immigration and multiculturalism is deeply flawed, and is now causing all sorts of inter-ethnic clashes of culture and jostling for scant resources.

I've lived in many different countries, and amongst many different cultures during my life and I have ALWAYS abided by the host countries laws, rules, regulations and cultural norms even when they have been in direct contradiction to mine, so don't bloody lecture me on the meaning of tolerance. It is not too much to ask that people who come to this country of their own free will, are prepared to respect OUR way of life. Respect and acceptance is a two way street and it's about time we were met half way.

I bet you're a male chauvinistic, sexist pig, judging by your complete inability to understand that most of these women do not wear the burkha from their own free will. Have you ever taken the time to talk to such women, well I have and not just in this country. I have lived in the Middle East and know only too well how oppressed women are there, so don't give me all your BS about how we MUST accept such reactionary sexist crap in our modern day society. It is NOT a religious or even a major cultural requirement but it is extremely divisive if only because the burkha isolates the wearer from normal human interaction and contact. How is multiculturalism ever going to work in practise if EVERY culture does its own thing, irrespective of whether it is acceptable to other cultures. But then the loony left never think anything through do they? I suggest YOU go back to your red flag flying, Guardian reading, hypocritical left wing buddies whose idealistic claptrap is never grounded in any reality.

Originally Posted by arista (Post 3821178)

MTVN
can you please keep the BNP out of this thread.

Its is about a College using there Security Rights.

Sign Of The Times.

Originally Posted by angus58 (Post 3808935)

I lived in the Middle East for four years and I can assure you that good old fashioned intolerance is alive and well and always will be in a muslim country when it comes to adjusting THEIR ways to us westerners which, by the way, I had absolutely no problem with since I had CHOSEN to live in THEIR country. Thus I had to cover up and not wear short skirts, or display bare arms or a cleavage, and would be sweltering in 50 degree heat for fear of offending their sensibilities by a flash of bare flesh. It is called respect for the host culture, its laws and norms. We do more than enough in this country already to respect others' culture and it is not too much to ask that there should be some sort of compromise from those who come here. A hijab is more than acceptable in place of the burkha which, by the way, most arab women did NOT wear except in the more remote areas of Kuwait, Saudi and Bahrain that I lived and worked in. Most muslim women find the burkha as offensive as western women do, and unless you are female you might not get the significance of what the burkha actually is. It was explained to me that it is a visual sign of ownership and possession of the woman by a man.

Banning the veil has absolutely NOTHING to do with religious intolerance but everything to do with safety and security, as well as the liberation, respect and freedom of women. The veil is a symbol of FEMALE SUBJUGATION and is abhorrent and offensive not only to most western women but also to a lot of liberated and independent muslim women. It is a demeaning subjugation imposed by muslim men and is sexist and totally retroactive to gender equality. We live in a modern society where women have fought hard for equality, and the veil is a potent and virulent symbol of the oppression and "inferiority" of women.

Far from being an intolerant country, the UK bends over backwards to accommodate all cultures, but it is now being recognised (too late) that multiculturalism does not work when every culture keeps itself separate and refuses to integrate even minimally with the mainstream culture. No-one has yet satisfactorily explained how diametrically diverse cultures can coexist in peace and harmony without some common ground being found, and MUTUAL respect fostered. Banning the burkha is common sense in this day and age - why should one section of the community be exempt from abiding by the rules and regulations the rest of us must abide by?

I'm sick of men on this forum supporting the wearing of the burkha when it is so obvious that if the boot were on the other foot, men would never be subjected to such an indignity by women.

I note you do not address your support of other so called "cultural" norms, examples of which I gave in my previous post, but then again you couldn't really, could you?

As regards prosecuting the college for banning the burkha, I hope that those colleges that still allow the burkha are similarly prosecuted for failing to practise equality in the application of their regulations, and failure to assure the safety of their students by condoning the anonymity of the burkha so that no-one knows who the hell is coming in and out of the college, or for that matter taking the exams.

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 3821055)

Banning a woman from wearing something out of her own free will - that is oppression.

You still dont undertsand that banning a religious garment is an infringement on civil liberties, and an infringement on religious freedom. And before you go on about how it is not techincally a requriement I'll reiterate that neither are crucuifixes, nor is the kippah for Jews. By saying that I'm not saying that the burqa and the kippah are similar, not at all, but they are both ways of somebody expressing their religion, and that is a right that freedom of religion grants.

We are not submitting to others cultural norms. If you find the burqa abhorrent and offensive then that you really do need to get over yourself and your petty attitude where you think you have the right to decide what clothing is and isnt acceptable. We are a multicultural and secular society, whether you and your BNP, Daily Mail-reading buddies like it or not, and we should therefore be tolerant of other religious and cultural customs, instead of holding them in contempt.

The number of women who wear burqas is tiny, no more than a thousand or two. Just live and let live.

Originally Posted by WOMBAI (Post 3821000)

What are you on? knocking British culture of its perch? lol British culture is made up of multicultural influence too, its not just cricket and cream teas Wombai and also you seem to think that our culture is under threat from "others", its not. This is far from a middle eastern country, what just cos a few want to wear a burqua?? it never will be. Britain is built on tolerance and freedom of choice. By banning the burqa your going against all that is British

Originally Posted by WOMBAI (Post 3821000)

What are you on? knocking British culture of its perch? lol British culture is made up of multicultural influence too, its not just cricket and cream teas Wombai and also you seem to think that our culture is under threat from "others", its not. This is far from a middle eastern country, what just cos a few want to wear a burqua?? it never will be. Britain is built on tolerance and freedom of choice. By banning the burqa your going against all that is British

Originally Posted by WOMBAI (Post 3821298)

The thread is about a college banning the burka for reasons of security - and rightly so! Burkas DO pose a security risk in public places, including buses and trains! If you can't see that - then you are the one on something!

Originally Posted by Shaun (Post 3821305)

I find the grey area here is leading to a lot of confusion - how exactly are burkas a security threat? Surely in the event of a request for the person wearing one's identity, they could just temporarily remove it and then go about their day as normal?

I think the 'security threat' is being exaggerated too. Only the insecure and paranoid are threatened by people under a burka. And under all circumstances, when was the last time a college was targetted by terrorists, or whatever?

I just think the move is incredibly stupid and more likely to aggravate what little tensions there were.

Oh and WOMBAI for the love of God can you have a debate without all of this 'you must be on something!' BS.

Originally Posted by Shaun (Post 3821305)

I find the grey area here is leading to a lot of confusion - how exactly are burkas a security threat? Surely in the event of a request for the person wearing one's identity, they could just temporarily remove it and then go about their day as normal?

I think the 'security threat' is being exaggerated too. Only the insecure and paranoid are threatened by people under a burka. And under all circumstances, when was the last time a college was targetted by terrorists, or whatever?

I just think the move is incredibly stupid and more likely to aggravate what little tensions there were.

Oh and WOMBAI for the love of God can you have a debate without all of this 'you must be on something!' BS.

Originally Posted by WOMBAI (Post 3821311)

Maybe you should read through some of the other posts before passing such comments and direct them to the correct person! Hardly any surprise you directed them at me though, is it! :sleep:

I recommend you read the link before saying you don't see how the wearing of burkas can present a security risk! Might just give you a clue!

http://frontpagemag.com/2010/04/22/the-burqa-bomb/

Originally Posted by Shaun (Post 3821315)

Stop shouting at me.

And the article references one example that happened in Pakistan. What bearing does that have on the education system of the United Kingdom exactly?

Originally Posted by Shaun (Post 3821315)

Stop shouting at me.

And the article references one example that happened in Pakistan. What bearing does that have on the education system of the United Kingdom exactly?

Originally Posted by WOMBAI (Post 3821291)

And you don't understand that civil liberties do not override national security! Your priorities are screwed!

You have been told that the burka is not a religious requirement - so why do you insist on bringing it up in a religious sense - it is simply for dramatic purposes. How dare you accuse people of being racist and belonging to the BNP - that is attempted intimidation - and designed to shut people up for fear of such name-calling! Always a weapon used by those losing the argument! And you need to get over yourself - who the hell are you to be telling people how tolerant you think they should be!

Originally Posted by jedward fever (Post 3821322)

well apart from america alot of muslims hate britain second.

Originally Posted by angus58 (Post 3821371)

I wouldn't bother Wombai. It's a complete waste of time trying to debate this issue with idiots like him. I can't even be arsed to respond to such a sexist bigot since he is clearly talking out of his backside. When he has maybe lived in a Muslim country for several years and interacted with the women in those countries he would understand the true meaning of oppression and being bullied into submission. Even then he would never really completely GET it since his experience would be completely different to that of a Western woman having to conform to their sexist culture.

Originally Posted by NettoSuperstar! (Post 3820939)

..we're pandering to terrorists, hysterics and right wing nuts