Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 4330199)

how can the parole board, the powers that be, or the public be assured that he is a reformed character? If he is so 'reformed' and there is absolute proof of this: he should not require any new identity.

Do you honestly feel that 'reformed character or not' - that a person who has inflicted such horror and torture upon a young child, should benefit from the taxpayer paying for his new ID, house, job and all other manner of things that that would entail.

Do you truly feel that the strained public purse and it's very restricted finances should be used for such a new ID - rather than say, for example, being used towards treating sick children / or treating children who have suffered emotionally and physically at the hands of such people. ?

If there was a choice between the monies being spent on the New ID or what I have posed above: what would your preference be?

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 4333466)

Do you think that if there were absolute proof of rehabilitation then that would stop some of the vigilante idiots from still pursuing their misguided concept of justice and trying to form a lynch mob? Working on the presumption that he has indeed been rehabilitated then I wouldnt be opposed to him having a new identity if there was sufficient evidence that his life was under threat.

And that's not really an answerable question because it presumes that the money can either be spent on one thing or the other. I'd rather taxpayers money wasnt being spent in the billions on unjust wars in Afghanistan, Iraq & now Libya, or that so much was spent on Trident etc. but it does, it's a straw man to say that because I wouldnt mind him having a new identity I, by extension, want to see sick children not be treated.

Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 4333565)

Given that the thread is nothing to do with wars etc, your 2nd paragraph is a completely moot point.

Re your first paragraph: if I am very honest: I really don't care. Owens didn't give a damn, why should I be concerned for his welfare. I'm not, and I don't pretend to be either.

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 4333605)

What the hell, of course it's relevant, this thread isnt specifically about sick children either but you brought that up and that's fine because public expenditure is relevant to the thread and wars are obviously a part of that

Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 4333632)

you will find you are taking my comment out of context......if you care to read the rest of what I wrote on that same paragraph - ie: The word 'sick' meant in regards to their mentail health due to such abuse and torture.

The thread is NOT about where public monies should be spent. Wars or not.

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 4333657)

I disagree, considering the thread is about how innapropiate you feel it is that this is what taxpayers money is being spent on then surely it's relevant to make other points in regards to how taxes are spent, is it not?

Anyway this is going off topic, I dont care much for an argument over the relevance of an argument so I'll leave it there

Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 4333734)

No it's not MTVN. It's painfully clear what this thread is about - not general allocation of funds from the public purse for any possible discussion topic - it's very specifically related to the public purse money being used to provide child abusers and killers with new identities - monies being used to protect violent, sick, abusing criminals and child killers.

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 4333751)

If you want to say that taxpayers money can be better spent elsewhere than it is perfectly reasonable to discuss what else taxpayers money is spent on. But this is stupid and going nowhere. And for the first couple of pages this thread had nothing to do with having a new identity so dont pretend you're suddenly incredibly indignant that you feel the discussion has drifted off topic ever so slightly

Originally Posted by Grimnir (Post 4334560)

i dont give 2 ****s anymore

the world is a nasty sesspit full of scumbags who defend other scum

so let them all out i say **** it

let them all out and give them TiBB accounts so they can contribute to this forum

Originally Posted by Pyramid* (Post 4334572)

Actually - you have said something that has struck a chord. Let out the scum - and when they come knocking on the homes of those who defend them, and abuse the children of those who defend them - let's see if their sympathies still lie where they once did.

After all, new Ids haven't been overly successful in the past - look at Venables and Carr.

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 4334618)

As far as I know Maxine Carr has not reoffended (although I'm surprised she was given a new identity in the first place) and you can also look at Mary Bell who killed 2 people when she was 10, was given a new identity and has never reoffended and is now a grandmother. Even Robert Thompson has presumably not reoffended despite him being the one to show least remorse following the death and considering the manner in which their persecution went ahead.

It's all very well to point out cases of recidivism and say rehabilitation can't work but you have to consider cases where it has been successful as well.

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 4334633)

I don't think the successful cases are worth the failed ones.

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 4334730)

I see your point but I think the fact that rehabilitation can be sucessful means that times where it has failed is more due to problems with the system itself, as oppose to some people being inherently unreformable, I dont think anyone is past being rehabilitated (unless we're talking about people who are mentally ill, or psychopathic)

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 4334730)

I see your point but I think the fact that rehabilitation can be sucessful means that times where it has failed is more due to problems with the system itself, as oppose to some people being inherently unreformable, I dont think anyone is past being rehabilitated (unless we're talking about people who are mentally ill, or psychopathic)

Originally Posted by MTVN (Post 4334618)

As far as I know Maxine Carr has not reoffended (although I'm surprised she was given a new identity in the first place) and you can also look at Mary Bell who killed 2 people when she was 10, was given a new identity and has never reoffended and is now a grandmother. Even Robert Thompson has presumably not reoffended despite him being the one to show least remorse following the death and considering the manner in which their persecution went ahead.

It's all very well to point out cases of recidivism and say rehabilitation can't work but you have to consider cases where it has been successful as well.