I also think in the last series,secrets and lies, they did an eviction before the day of the final but the housemates had been told they were finalists when they really weren't, hence an eviction before the day of the final.

So I wonder how they are going to work it if they open the VTW lines after the eviction on Friday - if they then freeze the lines for a mid week eviction then carry over the other votes then Helen will be at a massive disadvantage if no one can vote for her for the first few days - not sure how that will work.

Helen wouldn't finish last in a vote to win with this line-up anyway, so this whole argument has been kinda pointless :thumbs:

Not really. The vote to win is the start of the final... She is at that point a finalist... so her free pass has taken her to the final. That's all it was going to do. From that point onwards, it's up to the public whether or not she actually makes the very last night.

Ah ok, I'm so confused :bawling:

If it were an eviction then that would make more sense, she just has to be involved from the start in a Vote to Win

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Only in a VTE would she have the advantage and that wouldn't be the final vote. So there must be a final VTE or something over the weekend.

She'd still be a finalist. I don't recall them saying she would be there on the last night. She had a free pass up to... The final. The final begins when the vote to win starts. That's what her pass was up to.

That's it. They'd have to have an eviction vote but then some people said they don't like having less than a week to vote for the winner. :shrug:

I don't think it makes much of a difference these days with a much smaller viewership.

Not at all. And if there is there will be outrage, because someone like Ashleigh could go out over the boring men in such a vote.

Her free pass took her to the final. The final begins when the vote to win which culminates on the last night, begins. If she doesn't make the last night, it's because in the final vote she didn't get enough votes.

So therefore, the final vote should begin AFTER the final eviction. Whether a final eviction sees your favourite out or not, which as it stands it's not very likely Ashleigh would go.

I would prefer this Eviction on Friday to be the last tbh, we're getting rid of two of them so we could have all the rest as finalists and a proper length of time for voting as well

The final begins when the final vote begins. If Stuart was a part of the final vote in BB5 then he was a finalist. It's just a vote freeze took him out before the last night. He was not voted out, he was just the person with the fewest votes out of the final vote.

Helen's free pass was to take her to the final. If they have a midweek eviction, and she goes out, it's because as a finalist, she didn't get enough votes to make the last night.

And if they do use what you're saying as some justification for another eviction that takes out a potential winner, they will just cause outrage all over again.

Marsh also raised a good point in that Davina (and Brian and Emma) have always said during midweek evictions before the final that 'someone's going to be evicted two/three days before the final...sucks doesn't it' or words to that effect. That's the whole point of those evictions, to have the evictee just miss out on a place in the final. If you are evicted before the final night, you are NOT a finalist.

I'm done here. It's an objective fact and not a discussion, this is only happening because people are desperate for Helen to leave before the final and have been all series and just want to find a reason to justify it. You all know full well what a finalist is and it's the people that are there on the final night. Citing being a part of a vote to win as a reason for being a finalist is ridiculous since a vote to win is just a vote to save renamed, you're voting to keep people in the house as long as possible on the final night so that they stand a chance of being the last one standing to be crowned the winner. If a midweek eviction happens you're voting to save them from not being a part of it and missing out on a place in the final. It's the same thing, a vote to win is a vote to save. I didn't see any of you calling all of the housemates throughout BB12 and 13 and all the C5 celebrity series finalists from day one? Because by that logic that's what they were.

This is a ridiculous discussion that only has one answer and the other side of it is going to go round and round in circles because people hate Helen, that's all there is to it. If she leaves before the final night, she wasn't a finalist and therefore her pass failed. That's all there is to it.

It wouldn't be, hence why I said on the first page that I hope they aren't doing a midweek eviction since if she was evicted her pass would've been a lie and obviously they couldn't make her immune from it since that would be unfair. If they want a midweek eviction it has to be a vote to evict with her excluded as usual. But I don't want that since that's not enough time for a vote to win. If they open the VTW lines then there should not be a midweek eviction.

Yeah, I hate these large finals on C5. I like it being whittled down to 4 or 5. But on this occasion it seems the fairest way, they've twisted themselves to buggery this series.

What I meant was if they started a VTW without Helen, froze it on Monday to evict someone and then reopened it with Helen for the final night then she would be at a massive disadvantage because she would lose 3 days of votes.

And yes I agree that the final is what is at the end of the final vote which means that if there is another eviction it can't be an eviction with the finalists (which would mean Helen is the only finalist on Friday, if there's a separate eviction).

Which is what YOU think. The show itself states differently.

During Stu's eviction, Davina would stress how unlucky and "evil" it was for him to miss out on a finale place.

You can be pedantic over wording all you like simply because it's Helen.

Yes you are. You are a finalist if you are part of the final vote.

Actually, it's not an objective fact at all. Hence the reason it's in dispute. What some are concerned about is them using this to justify something that takes out the potential winner before a vote to win.



Yes, someone who was part of the final vote to win.

No, it is not. The final of different events can go on for Days. But it begins on the first night.


No it's not. The vote freezes and the votes to win remain counted. If they re-started the vote, you would have a point, but you don't.


No, when a vote to win starts you are voting for someone to win. That is an objective fact. And if you're a part of that vote to win then you are a finalist.

Yeah definitely, I think more than any other year this Power thing has been probably the toughest and most mind ****-y whoever is left after Friday should be a finalist imo

So what? She used the wrong wording. Some presenters still say "up for nomination". He was part of a final vote that began on the Friday and led to him leaving on Wednesday. That same vote was frozen and re-opened afterwards. He was there fore part of a final vote with Nadia, Jason, Dan and Shell.

:joker: She used the wrong wording for 11 years, Brian for 2 and Emma for 1 and now that Helen has a pass to the final we're finally correcting them all.

:laugh2:

The "final vote" was actually Nadia vs Jason.

As I said, presenters are still saying "Up for nomination" to this day.

But no one in that time has ever defined what a pass to the final actually meant. The final begins, as far as I'm concerned, when the vote to win begins. It then goes on for however many days it goes on.

And did that free pass mean up to the final... Or did it mean she was in the final. No one has clarified any of this.

Presenters have only started saying "up for nomination" recently. The same time that the whole concept of BB has completely gone tits up on C5.

I'm no longer arguing about FACTS. The final is Friday 15th August. Anyone evicted before that date is not in the final, nor a finalist.

Don't be silly. Only true if they re-started after every freeze. Every vote cast counted towards Nadia winning including those that began on the days before.

I'm not being silly, I'm being pedantic. Isn't that what this whole discussion is?

Anyone involved in a vote to win is a finalist. The game is determind by a public vote and anyone involved in the final public vote is a finalist.

The question is whether or not they are going to open the lines on Friday and give them all a fair shot. Or whether there is going to be some absurd twist that leads to a potential winner being evicted during the week. Just to piss the viewers off one last time.

BB gave Helen the pass. They can call the pass whatever they like. They can label whatever they like. There is nothing to stop them opening the VTW lines on Friday if they WANT to.

All semantics

If the vote to win lines are opened, then the final has begun. So it lasts from the point the phone lines are opened until the winner is announced.

If 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 fall before the last minute of the voting, be it on a monday, a wednesday or a friday, its still the final.

By some peoples logic, the final is where the winner is announced, which can't be correct, therefore it must span the length of the voting period. Simple :smug:

The discussion was meant to be about whether or not they will do some God awful twist on Friday and have another eviction rather than just do the Vote To Win like most people want them to.

Exactly

I agree. The moment the vote to win starts, they are finalists.

Well Helen's pass has been described as both "a finalist" and a "pass to the final".

So she should be there for when the vote to win opens and also on the final night.

Therefore whenever that vote to win opens, nobody can leave until the last night. THE FINAL.

If they want an eviction prior to that, it must be that, an eviction and an entirely separate vote. However, Helen cannot be included in this vote as a "finalist" who holds a "pass to the final".

Week 10 is the final week, the FINAL for short.
Friday 15th is the final night, the FINAL for short.

The pass doesn't dictate what decisions BB makes. They gave her the pass. They could remove it if they wanted to. They could give it to someone else if they wanted to.

We're working under the assumption her pass is still in place, which it is. As long as it stays in place, the rules I stated are in place.

Nobody has mentioned removing her pass. Removing it two days before the final would be rather pointless considering the myriad of twists they could've done with it weeks ago.

Helen's pass = immunity from all votes to evict until the vote to win lines open.
Pass to the final. They didn't specify final night, the main purpose of the pass was to give her immunity from all evictions before the vote to win lines open.

Nope. She should be there to when the final begins. Which is when the vote to win begins. That's it.

Nope, it can be the person with the fewest votes to go. Helen was still a finalist. and that's what her free pass took her up to being.

Look, I just want them to open the vote to win and have no more evictions until Friday. I just don't want some final twist revolving around this issue taking out a potential winner. It would be ridiculous.

The final starts when the vote to win starts. That's what her free pass took her up to. From that point, it's up to her supporters. If she goes out in a midweek vote freeze, she was still a part of the final which is what her pass took her to.

And again, I just want a vote to win with no midweek vote freeze. I am sick of the twists and extra eviction taking out people who most of us now just want to get on with voting to win.

Wrong.

Yes, you are.