Are you sure? I'm pretty sure Christianity was Hitler's main motivation for the majority of the things in his regime, he is what happens when a religious extremist so happens to wear a suit and lead a country.

I'm not religious.However i don't blame religion for all the wrongs in the world.It's all down to mankind.However intelligent we are,We are still just animals,Quite highly evolved animals but still animals and we behave as such,It's instinct.We are territorial just like many species and we fight each other mainly for territory.Chimps are'nt saints either btw,They can be incredibly nasty and that has'nt left us.I saw a doc on a group of chimps that went around in a pack and they encountered a lone chimp in the jungle and they set about it and literally ripped it apart,They ripped its genitals off and stamped all over it.I believe that mankind will wipe itself out before we ever get the chance to evolve into a higher species.

Science can only go so far, it is not infallable is it as science is constantly being evaluated and reevaluated, disproved and discredited also as breakthroughs are being made.
Who knows what science will uncover tomorrow?

And why are we discussing the decline in church attendance in the UK..does that act as a marker that the world has given up on the concept of religion somehow?
Many people have faith and or spirituality who have never set foot in a church.

According to this quote his warped perception of Christianity propelled him towards the holocaust.

'My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross.”

Yep, religion itself isn't so bad (magnet for naivety at the worst) it's what it does to people that's bad. Somebody could read a passage from the Bible, Quran etc. and take it too literally or misconstrue its meaning, and suddenly it snowballs into a warped perception or ideology and it leads to atrocities like we've seen all through history. Religion is basically a weapon, some people wield it for the wrong reasons and kill/cause suffering to others. Unlike any other weapon though, there's no rules or regulations and there can't be really, so for the greater good it would be best removed or at least supervised. Both of those steps are nigh on impossible though, so we're stuck with nutcases like Hitler/ISIS running around doing their best to ruin the world, and people who devote their entire lives to religion that could of gone on to achieve wonderful things. I can respect why some turn to religion though, it gives a person false hope in this cesspit of a world we live in, and it's only human to cling to things like that, I guess some things we go through in life are easier to handle when we have faith to cling to.

Funnily enough I'm an optimist btw. :hehe:

A good post Creggle. Good points.

'My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross.”

How such an insignificant, twisted, evil, little turd like Hitler captivated entire Nations and went on to cause a world war and, perpetrate the most mind-numbing, evil atrocities in human history, is unfathomable.

The incestuous bastard even spouts vitriolic lies in the above passage from Kizzie.

Jesus was a Jew himself - not a Christian, there were no Christians until after his death. Jesus did not fight against any 'Jewish' position per se. Yes, he was angered by corruption, inequality, the abuse of privilege - all the bad elements in life which were just as prevalent in Jewish society in Judea in his time, as they always have been in any other Country, before and since. Jesus's rage against the money changers in the Temple therefore, was not a rage against his own race - the Jews, but against what he perceived as corrupt practices by a very small minority of Jews.

Jesus's crucifixion on Calvary was preordained. It was his 'raison d'etre' the sole reason for his very existence. Judas Iscariot, Caiaphas, The Great Sanhedrin were all just unwitting pawns in God's Grand Plan to have his only son sacrificed. It had to be this way.

The Jews did not kill Christ. This is a vile anti-semitic falsehood perpetrated throughout history by anti-semitic hate-mongers for their own evil ends.

The Jews did not kill Christ - how could they have? because the Jews did not regard Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah (they still don't) so to the ruling Jewish authorities of his time, Jesus was nothing more than one of many 'false prophets', political agitators, and 'revolutionaries', who were a threat to their relatively peaceful existence under Roman rule, and to the very hard-fought and tenuous concessions they had won from them - including many concessions regarding their all-important religious practices and the Temple itself.

The Jews tried the criminal upstart and blasphemer Jesus of Nazareth as far as they were aware and concerned, and during his brief 'trial', Jesus had several opportunities to 'save himself' - he did not choose to because it was his sole preordained mission to die on the cross.

Remember, that although Caiaphas undoubtedly desired the death sentence for Jesus the blasphemer, Judaic law forbid it, and Jesus's death had to be sanctioned by the Roman Procurator Pontius Pilate, so it was a Roman not a Jew who actually sentenced Jesus to death.

For Christ - he had to die for the sake of all humanity.

For Caiaphas - Jesus had to die for the sake of Jewish survival under their Roman oppressors.

One for the sake of many. The parallel is notable.

In any event, Hitler - far from being a 'Christian' is the 'Anti-Christ'.

Yes and thankgoodness

Sadly religion closed its doors 2000 years ago

As you can see above.....

What about the Ghosts...??? What happened to the Ghosts

This thread was about the existance of Ghosts now it's degenerated into the usual for or against Religion.




.

Dont forget the holy ghost!

Yes Nedusa - and look back through the posts and see just who brought religion into this.

The thread is about the supernatural and so religion will be an integral part

The holy ghost being the original ghost and probably where all fictional ghosts come from

Really?.. another religious debate? Have mercy on us all.

:joker::joker::joker:

Mercy, indeed.

I'm pretty sure that he was driven by the lust for power and the wish to build the Third Reich into a world-dominating regime. Being a "Christian", however perverse his ideology, doesn't necessarily mean that his crusade was a religious one, and I believe he was more driven by his own megalomania than by any religious doctrine. Germany being humiliated after WW1 and the ensuing depression were bigger driving factors in the rise of the Nazis than religion was.

But all that’s beside the point. Not all wars are fought on religious grounds, and yet people always say how many lives have been lost to religion. Atheists are just as violent as believers because human beings, with very few exceptions, are flawed.

Hitler and stalin could never be called religious however the trouble in the middle east is religious and USA do go into every conflict bookended by God Bless America

:clap1:

:joker:

no morsh

its

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

I'm not clapping you no matter how much you beg. :smug:

As for ghosts, i believe in them yes. Not sure i believe in psychic powers and mediums though, they prey on the vulnerable, which isn't fair.

It would be interesting to know how many wars have had nothing to do with religion, the ones that spring to mind all have a group with a dogmatic fanatical obsession with eradicating by fair means or foul members of a differing religion to them.

Why did he want to dominate the world though, why did he want everyone to have blonde hair blue eyes etc. ? He could very well of gotten his agenda from something he misinterpreted from the bible, but he also might not of. It would be hard to say without him being questioned directly. That part is speculation, but the holocaust was due to religion, no ways around that, and that part is fact. Speculation + fact creates a decent case about his crusade being driven by religion.

You're right about atheists, people are just scumbags in general. Though how much less death would there of been without religion? I don't dislike religious people btw, just throwing that out there.

'I'm seeing a door, yes a door, did your loved one live in a house with a door?'

'OMG YES! :sad:'

'Ok ok, good good. Now I'm visioning... Did his name start with a letter from the alphabet?'

'YES!!! It was T!!!'

'Yes, yes I saw the letter T, was it compromised of other letters from the alphabet?'

'YES IT WAS TERRANCE!'

'Yes yes, I have Terrance right here, he say's that he loves you very much'

'OMG! *throws money* HE IS REAL, THE MAN CAN TALK TO THE DEAD!'

The comment 'Atheists are as violent as believers' cannot be proven as there has never been a war where atheism was the driving force has there?
Historically before religion civilisations were very peaceable :shrug:

Looking at the Hitler thing - whether he was or was not a christian is by the way but the vast majority of Germans at that time were Christians

It did not stop or inhibit them doing what they did

so what use is it?

What use is what Christianity or religion in general?
At any given time as many people with spirituality and or faith are doing positive things to enhance the world as destructive.

I love your open mind about things Creggle, and the way you put counter viewpoints across without any unwarranted aggression or hostility to the person whose opinion you are countering.

However, Cregg, the bible had nothing to do with Hitler’s crackpot doctrines, and were not where he derived his ‘agenda’ from. Hitler was not a ‘true’ Christian, but falsely embraced Christianity for two reasons:

First; In the knowledge that Christianity was the biggest religion out there, Hitler thought that if he ‘nailed his colours’ to the Christian’s ‘mast’ with any degree of conviction, then he was guaranteed a ready-made audience of hundreds of millions who were at once, both, receptive to his twisted ideologies, and also sympathetic to his demonic cause.

Secondly; Hitler was under the gross misapprehension that all Christians detested the Jews as much as he personally did, because – in his distorted, over-simplistic view - he believed that all Christians blamed the Jews for killing The Christ. The Roman Catholic Church at the time, actually had hidden sympathy with this demon so the ploy was successful to some degree.

If anyone doubts that Hitler – or indeed any Nazi party member – was not Christian, I refer them to the following:

“Rosenberg claimed that Christianity was an alien Semitic slave-morality inappropriate to the warrior Aryan master race and thus supported a melange of aspects of Hindu Vedic and Zoroastrian teachings (both of these religions having been organised by Aryans), along with pre-Christian European Odinistic paganism, which he also considered to be distinctively Aryan in character”

Further:

Hitler actually formulated the core of his warped ideas from a late 19th century book – ‘An Essay on the Inequality of the Human Races’ - written by a French aristocrat called De Gobineau. De Gobineau developed the B.S. theory that the ‘Aryan’ race was the ‘Master’ race and was a founder of ‘Scientific Racism’.

However, as with every other ideology which that little turd Hitler borrowed from, he ‘selectively edited’ the ideas of De Gobineau to suit his own insane doctrines, because De Gobineau was not only not anti-Semitic, but he actually extensively praised the Jews in other works, describing them as a; “free, strong, and intelligent people".

Hitler conveniently ignored this admiration of the Jews when he filched and re-crafted most of the remainder of De Gobineau’s other contentions to suit his own demented purposes.

The Nazi ideal of ‘Blond hair and blue eyes’ – or ‘Aryan’ ideal - originated from De Gobineau’s works in part, but mainly from the works of Nazi theorists H. F. K. Günther and Alfred Rosenberg, whose ideas themselves were a result of these authors deliberately twisting and bastardising historical fact and lacing it with fantasy and myth to finally, and conveniently, arrive at their conclusions that the ‘Aryan’ race was ‘essentially’ Germanic.

The term ‘Aryan’ is a Sanskrit word which originates in India (hardly a blond haired blue eyed indigenous person to be found there) and also has Iranian connections. ‘Iran’ is actually the ancient Persian word for ‘Land of the Aryans’ (hardly a blond haired blue eyed indigenous person to be found here either).

So to get around the fact that the original ‘Aryans’ were dark-skinned non-Germanic people (both of which according to Nazi criterion were qualities which qualified a particular race to be placed at the bottom of the pile when it came to ‘worth’) these authors ‘dreamt up’ a convoluted B.S. hypothesis that these Indo Iranian people were actually – wait for it - originally from Atlantis, and these ‘Atlantians’ lived in prehistoric times on the ‘North German Plain’.

Apparently, they migrated from the North German Plain to Iran and India via the Ukraine – on chariots no less. (Wagnerian undertones - imagery of heroic blue-eyed Germanic warriors riding into battle, long blond tresses flowing et al?).

You could not make it up – yet look at the catastrophic consequences of the gullible cretins who were Nazi followers swallowing this propaganda crap.

Anyway, the Aryan Master race prototype was created from all this convoluted crap and this prototype was not just confined to blond hair and blue eyes, as this description of a ‘pure Aryan’ from a 1922 leaflet ‘The Nazi Race’, shows;

“The Aryan race is tall, long legged, slim. The race is narrow faced with a narrow forehead, a narrow high-built nose and a lower jaw and prominent chin, the skin is rosy bright and the blood shines through.... the hair is smooth straight or wavy - possibly curly in childhood. The colour is blond. “

It’s very noticeable how most of the raggle-taggle, moronic, misfits which comprised the Nazi hierarchy – notably Himmler and old Adolf himself - was the total antithesis of this ideal. But they got around this with yet more convoluted B.S. and contrived 'jiggery-pokery.

In my experience Christians are religious for about an hour on a sunday and for the rest of the time they are themselves and the same as anyone else.

Its like scouts, being in the local drama club or being a rotarian.

Its a wee club like other wee clubs and probably why as a christian nation germany did what they did

Judge not lest ye be judged.

You are absolutely right with this Creggle, I despise all fake 'mediums' because their proliferation detracts from the fact that genuine examples of 'Extra Sensory Perception' and 'Clairvoyance' do exist.

I know from my own experiences that this is a reality, and I'm sure that there are a lot of people on here who have had similar experiences.

Sometimes, I have 'sensed' my mother or father - both of whom have passed. At times this 'perception' has been feint, fleeting, nothing more than an unaccountable feeling. and at other times, it has been so strong, that the smell of my mother's favourite perfume or my father's tobacco pervades the entire room if not every room in the house.

Think about this; part of a deceased parent's 'physical being' lives on in you as part of your genetic inheritance from them, and part of their cerebral existence lives on in you via the thought processes and ideas which you absorbed from them her while you were growing up under their loving guidance.

In light of the earlier post on 'residual' energy (thank you Josey) isn't it plausible then, that a spirit will return to that very place where he/she lived? Isn't it yet more plausible that he/she will revisit the very person who still retains so much of their living physical and cerebral essence?

I know my parents have re-visited me because of my own personal experiences, and I actually talk to my parents whenever I perceive their presence. These experiences always end in a 'feeling' of calmness and tranquility which overtakes me despite any previous mood I was in prior.

I am happy with that deal


but I wish it was applied more to Louis on X-factor

Or Cheryl... sit and judge people on their singing... then get up and mime. She's probably going to hell.

and be arsey about it on twitter..:joker:

Was she? LOL... She is a very pretty girl. That's all she's got though.

I would be very interested to hear about real mediums....


I think i knew one called...John....or Tom...or Bill or was it Phil


Jim.......B something.....S something??

Leave Louis out of this LT :fist:

Yup

Lovely tits and a good smile will get you quite far in media


Especially if you are a woman

He reminds me of a young Lenny Henry

:think:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...z73wVaTLYGuZCv