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-   -   May will rip human rights laws to fight terror (https://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319986)

Vicky. 07-06-2017 03:30 PM

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/...e-human-rights

This video may seem to be really patronizing but it really seems many do not understand what Human Rights actually are. And how they cannot possibly be restricted for a few people, without affecting everyone else...

user104658 07-06-2017 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niamh. (Post 9340033)
Yes but they're going back to them backwards countries where people aren't real like us so who cares TS?

Indeed; just compare the reaction on the London / Manchester threads to the reaction on the Mosul thread where ten times as many innocent people were killed. Not that we should have to "compare numbers" when it comes to attacks like this, it doesn't lessen the horrors of the attacks closer to home, but still... it does speak volumes.

Vicky. 07-06-2017 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier (Post 9340025)
Even moreso when you consider that we'd be "sending people back" who are either not yet convicted of anything, or at least not convicted of anything in the country they are being sent to, so it's pretty much certain that they WOULD simply "go free" in that country, and if they indeed are dangerous, to kill / hurt / maim people there. Or even radicalize others and send them right back to Europe? The idea that if we think someone is dangerous we should just "send them away" is completely reckless...

British peoples lives are more important though, why should we care if we are just sending very dangerous people elsewhere. If these dangerous people were British born, then simply send them to wherever their parents were from. If their parents were British born, then just go back along the family tree until we find another country to send our criminals to. Hell..we could save a lot of money with this radical idea actually. anyone convicted of a crime, just send them elsewhere. Everyone has foreign blood somewhere along the line. we no longer need prisons :o

user104658 07-06-2017 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky. (Post 9340045)
British peoples lives are more important though, why should we care if we are just sending very dangerous people elsewhere. If these dangerous people were British born, then simply send them to wherever their parents were from. If their parents were British born, then just go back along the family tree until we find another country to send our criminals to. Hell..we could save a lot of money with this radical idea actually. anyone convicted of a crime, just send them elsewhere. Everyone has foreign blood somewhere along the line. we no longer need prisons :o

I have Irish on my Dad's side, they could send me to live in Niamh's spare room [emoji23]

Kazanne 07-06-2017 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brillopad (Post 9339734)
What about our rights not be killed or maimed by terrorists? What about our rights to go about our business without having to look over our shoulders, what about our rights not to have to think twice about taking the kids to London, what about our rights to feel safe in our own country and not have to even think about ISIS terrorists attacking every time we go on the trains/underground trains etc, the list goes on.

Do you care about the rights of terrorists then? I don't!

No need to add to this :wavey:

Beso 07-06-2017 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazanne (Post 9340199)
No need to add to this :wavey:

Yep.

Vicky. 07-06-2017 07:41 PM

I just read this on another site, is this really what was said? Sorry have had ****ing paw patrol on the majority of the day so haven't actually seen Mays words about it, only whats been posted on here and a few reporters just saying scrapping human rights...

Quote:

Theresa May said today that she would be looking to deport suspected and convicted terrorists, and if challenged by Human Rights laws, she would change the law
Deport 'suspected' terrorists.

And again, the question needs asked. where would those born here, or those who have lived the majority of their lives here be deported to?

I am fairly uneasy about the idea of punishing people 'suspected' of an offense tbh.

Denver 07-06-2017 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky. (Post 9340599)
I just read this on another site, is this really what was said? Sorry have had ****ing paw patrol on the majority of the day so haven't actually seen Mays words about it, only whats been posted on here and a few reporters just saying scrapping human rights...



Deport 'suspected' terrorists.

And again, the question needs asked. where would those born here, or those who have lived the majority of their lives here be deported to?

I am fairly uneasy about the idea of punishing people 'suspected' of an offense tbh.

Those who cant be deported should have a bullet through their heads

Kizzy 07-06-2017 07:48 PM

How long have they wanted to rip up human rights?... This is an excuse :/

Vicky. 07-06-2017 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam. (Post 9340610)
Those who cant be deported should have a bullet through their heads

'suspected'?

Kizzy 07-06-2017 08:00 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-of-terrorists

Denver 07-06-2017 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky. (Post 9340673)
'suspected'?

All of these attackers over the last few weeks started as suspected and got away

Vicky. 07-06-2017 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam. (Post 9340677)
All of these attackers over the last few weeks started as suspected and got away

What would your criteria be for 'suspect' in terror cases?

I didn't know all of them were suspects either? I knew the Manchester one and one of the London bridge ones were 'known to intelligence agencies'. I would be more for increasing funding to intelligence agencies so they can investigate people properly before we go to shooting people suspected of stuff in the head tbh

I take it you don't believe in innocent until proven guilty in general?

Vicky. 07-06-2017 08:09 PM

Its terrifying to think that after the Boston bombing I could have been suspected of terror offenses tbh. My internet search history was horrendous. And certain terms are flagged to intelligence agencies. It was innocent of course, but I was searching stuff like how to make a bomb with the contents of your kitchen and stuff as I didn't actually believe it could be done :S

Denver 07-06-2017 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky. (Post 9340696)
What would your criteria be for 'suspect' in terror cases?

I didn't know all of them were suspects either? I knew the Manchester one and one of the London bridge ones were 'known to intelligence agencies'. I would be more for increasing funding to intelligence agencies so they can investigate people properly before we go to shooting people suspected of stuff in the head tbh

I take it you don't believe in innocent until proven guilty in general?

To me any single young male making regular trips to IS strong countries are guilty and anyone who research or engage in conversation about hurting people in terror related attacks are guilty and a perfect suspect

Stu 07-06-2017 08:15 PM

I love this magic view that ripping up human rights will only apply to those who glowed a lustrous jihadi purple under one of those "are you a terrorist?" UV bulbs.

Vicky. 07-06-2017 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky. (Post 9340702)
Its terrifying to think that after the Boston bombing I could have been suspected of terror offenses tbh. My internet search history was horrendous. And certain terms are flagged to intelligence agencies. It was innocent of course, but I was searching stuff like how to make a bomb with the contents of your kitchen and stuff as I didn't actually believe it could be done :S

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam. (Post 9340705)
To me any single young male making regular trips to IS strong countries are guilty and anyone who research or engage in conversation about hunting people in terror related attacks are guilty and a perfect suspect


Oh dear. I guess it would be a bullet in the head for me D: And a lot of other people who search stuff about terror attacks actually.

Withano 07-06-2017 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu (Post 9340723)
I love this magic view that ripping up human rights will only apply to those who glowed a lustrous jihadi purple under one of those "are you a terrorist?" UV bulbs.

:joker:

Denver 07-06-2017 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky. (Post 9340727)
Oh dear. I guess it would be a bullet in the head for me D: And a lot of other people who search stuff about terror attacks actually.

That was meant to be hurt bloody autocorrect :fist:

James 07-06-2017 08:35 PM

I haven't read the whole thread, but do people know what the Human Rights Act 1998 is? Because whenever I see it mentioned (social media) they seem to think if you scrapped it there wouldn't be any Human Rights in this country.

One of the troubles I've always thought is it covers so much ground, that it leaves the interpretation down to the courts, and gives a lot of power to judges to rule rather than elected bodies.

Another is that there are contradictions: Article 8 covers privacy, so we now have press privacy laws (despite that issue not being passed by parliament). But Article 10 is about freedom of expression - so that contradicts Article 8 eg. a case could be brought against a news outlet - they would claim freedom of expression the other party would claim privacy. It would be down to a judge to decide.

^From European Convention on Human Rights article - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe...n_Human_Rights

Here's the Wikipedia article on the Human Rights Act - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Act_1998

Here's Notable Human Rights Act cases from the above link - what do you think? Fair decisions?

Quote:

Notable human rights case law

Lee Clegg's murder conviction gave rise to the first case invoking the Act, brought by The Times in October 2000 which sought to overturn a libel ruling against the newspaper.

Campbell v. MGN Ltd. [2002] EWCA Civ 1373, Naomi Campbell and Sara Cox both sought to assert their right to privacy under the Act. Both cases were successful for the complainant (Campbell's on the second attempt; Cox's attempt was not judicially decided but an out of court settlement was reached before the issue could be tested in court) and an amendment to British law to incorporate a provision for privacy is expected to be introduced.

Venables and Thompson v. News Group Newspapers [2001] 1 All ER 908, the James Bulger murder case tested whether the Article 8 (privacy) rights of Venables and Thomson, the convicted murderers of Bulger, applied when four newspapers sought to publish their new identities and whereabouts, using their Article 10 rights of freedom of expression. The judge, Dame Elizabeth Butler-Sloss, granted permanent global injunctions ordering that the material not be published because of the disastrous consequences such disclosure might have for the former convicts, not least the possibility of physical harm or death (hence claims for Article 2 rights (right to life) were entertained, and sympathised with).

A and Others v. Secretary of State for the Home Department [2004] UKHL 56, on 16 December 2004, the House of Lords held that Part 4 of the Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001, under whose powers a number of non-UK nationals were detained in Belmarsh Prison, was incompatible with the Human Rights Act. This precipitated the enactment of the Prevention of Terrorism Act 2005 to replace Part 4 of the 2001 Act.

R. v. Chauhan and Hollingsworth: Amesh Chauhan and Dean Hollingsworth were photographed by a speed camera in 2000. As is standard practice for those caught in this way, they were sent a form by the police asking them to identify who was driving the vehicle at the time. They protested under the Human Rights Act, arguing that they could not be required to give evidence against themselves. An initial judgment, by Judge Peter Crawford at Birmingham Crown Court, ruled in their favour[30] but this was later reversed. The same issue came to light in Scotland with Procurator Fiscal v Brown [2000] UKPC D3,[31] in which a woman, when apprehended on suspicion of theft of a bottle of gin, was drunk and was asked by police to identify who had been driving her car (which was nearby) at the time she arrived at the superstore.

Price v. Leeds City Council [2005]:[32] On 16 March 2005 the Court of Appeal upheld a High Court ruling that Leeds City Council could not infringe the right to a home of a Romani family, the Maloneys, by evicting them from public land. The court however referred the case to the House of Lords as this decision conflicted with a ruling from the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR).

In March 2006,[citation needed] the High Court in London ruled against a hospital's bid to turn off the ventilator that kept the child, known as Baby MB, alive. The 19-month-old baby has the genetic condition spinal muscular atrophy, which leads to almost total paralysis. The parents of the child fought for his right to life, despite claims from medics that the invasive ventilation would cause an 'intolerable life'.

Connors v. UK,[33] a judgment given by ECtHR, declared that travellers who had their licences to live on local authority-owned land suddenly revoked had been discriminated against, in comparison to the treatment of mobile-home owners who did not belong to the traveller population, and thus their Article 14 (protection from discrimination) and Article 8 (right to respect for the home) rights had been infringed. However, there has never been a case where the Act has been successfully invoked to allow travellers to remain on greenbelt land, and indeed the prospects of this ever happening seem highly unlikely after the House of Lords decision in Kay v Lambeth LBC which severely restricted the occasions on which Article 8 may be invoked to protect someone from eviction in the absence of some legal right over the land.

Afghan hijackers case 2006, in May 2006, a politically controversial decision regarding the treatment of nine Afghan men who hijacked a plane to flee from the Taliban, caused widespread condemnation by many tabloid newspapers (most notably The Sun), the broadsheets and the leaders of both the Labour Party and the Conservative Party. It was ruled by an Immigration Tribunal, under the Human Rights Act, that the hijackers could remain in the United Kingdom; a subsequent court decision ruled that the government had abused its power in restricting the hijackers' right to work.

Mosley v News Group Newspapers Limited (2008), Max Mosley challenged an invasion of his private life after the News of the World exposed his involvement in a sadomasochistic sex act. The case resulted in Mr Mosley being awarded £60,000 in damages.

Vicky. 07-06-2017 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam. (Post 9340734)
That was meant to be hurt bloody autocorrect :fist:

I assumed that :p

I would still be ****ed though. lol

Unless I would be OK as I am not a Muslim I guess...

Denver 07-06-2017 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky. (Post 9340783)
I assumed that :p

I would still be ****ed though. lol

Unless I would be OK as I am not a Muslim I guess...

Well obviously they would have to prove it was more then your mind wondering which they do by checking your phone and computer

user104658 07-06-2017 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky. (Post 9340783)
I assumed that :p

I would still be ****ed though. lol

Unless I would be OK as I am not a Muslim I guess...

White Widow 2.0 though.

JoshBB 07-06-2017 10:36 PM

right-wing: muslims oppose british human rights! disgusting
right-wing: let's rip up british human rights

Withano 07-06-2017 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoshBB (Post 9341797)
right-wing: muslims oppose british human rights! disgusting
right-wing: let's rip up british human rights

:joker: this ismy favourite thread

James 07-06-2017 11:47 PM

I made the last post on a page, and didn't get a response. :sad: I actually wondered what people thought about the example cases.

bots 08-06-2017 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James (Post 9342189)
I made the last post on a page, and didn't get a response. :sad: I actually wondered what people thought about the example cases.

its a very dry topic in reality :laugh:. I said in an earlier thread that we are still subject to UK law, which in the majority of cases is equal to or more protective of our rights than we receive from europe. Those laws still need to go through parliament to change them.

smudgie 08-06-2017 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James (Post 9342189)
I made the last post on a page, and didn't get a response. :sad: I actually wondered what people thought about the example cases.

I think that human rights is a great thing, until it wonders over to the ridiculous side.
I do think that our own government should be allowed to revisit some of the human right laws if it protects its citizens...all of its citizens.

Brillopad 08-06-2017 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vicky. (Post 9340599)
I just read this on another site, is this really what was said? Sorry have had ****ing paw patrol on the majority of the day so haven't actually seen Mays words about it, only whats been posted on here and a few reporters just saying scrapping human rights...



Deport 'suspected' terrorists.

And again, the question needs asked. where would those born here, or those who have lived the majority of their lives here be deported to?

I am fairly uneasy about the idea of punishing people 'suspected' of an offense tbh.

Isn't it obvious - where their allegencies lie and it clearly isn't with Britain. Home is where the heart is and the terrorists' hearts belong elsewhere.

They hate Britain and everything it represents so how can anyone believe Britain is their home. They don't want us and we don't want them.

Beso 08-06-2017 07:57 AM

If you think adding 20 thousand police back onto the beat will protect your human rights more fool you.

bots 08-06-2017 08:00 AM

lets be clear on some things. You can't deport a UK passport holder. Its not possible. You can only deport to the country that they hold a passport for. If they have no passport, you can't deport them without proving their country of origin.

May has identified what she wants to do, she wants to extend the sentences associated with terror crimes .... very specific, and she wants to deport people faster when it is legally possible to do so. She also wants control orders in place to restrict the movements of people when they have known terrorist affiliations.

These are all highly targeted measures

Brillopad 08-06-2017 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitontheslide (Post 9342599)
lets be clear on some things. You can't deport a UK passport holder. Its not possible. You can only deport to the country that they hold a passport for. If they have no passport, you can't deport them, you have to prove their country of origin.

May has identified what she wants to do, she wants to extend the sentences associated with terror crimes .... very specific, and she wants to deport people faster when it is legally possible to do so. She also wants control orders in place to restrict the movements of people when they have known terrorist affiliations.

These are all highly targeted measures

Laws can be changed. Citizenship can be rescinded/revoked. . Nothing is written in stone.

If for instance you go to fight for another country against the country of your birth then you should no longer be considered a citizen of the country of your birth. You have forfeited that right by such actions.

Such people should be deported to the country they went to fight for. Crystal clear.

bots 08-06-2017 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brillopad (Post 9342609)
Laws can be changed. Citizenship can be rescinded/revoked. . Nothing is written in stone.

If for instance you go to fight for another country against the country of your birth then you should no longer be considered a citizen of the country of your birth. You have forfeited that right by such actions.

Such people should be deported to the country they went to fight for. Crystal clear.

In order to deport someone, you have to have the agreement of the country you are deporting too, the rules are not something that any individual country can change because they need the others agreement.

user104658 08-06-2017 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitontheslide (Post 9342614)
In order to deport someone, you have to have the agreement of the country you are deporting too, the rules are not something that any individual country can change because they need the others agreement.

This is the part people seem to be most confused about; that you can just "send someone" to a country that they do not have citizenship of! "Send them to Syria, their problem."

It's just GB Empire arrogance at play. "Well by jove we'll just send them where we want and if those countries don't like it we have Trident what what."

Brillopad 08-06-2017 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bitontheslide (Post 9342614)
In order to deport someone, you have to have the agreement of the country you are deporting too, the rules are not something that any individual country can change because they need the others agreement.

Surely children born in another country of parents from overseas should have dual citizenship - it should be a condition when people emigrate. The citizenship should be made up of place of birth of the child and homeland/nationality of the parents and the biological and cultural roots/history involved.

So if said child commits heinous crimes in the country of their birth they can be deported back to their parents/grandparents homeland where their biological and cultural roots lie, not to mention their obvious religous and emotional ties. If they have dual citizenship the other country involved cannot refuse to take them back.

That way it places some accountability and responsibility onto the parents and the child to respect and value the country that has taken them in and to realise there are potential consequences for severe abuse of their citizenship.

user104658 08-06-2017 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brillopad (Post 9342638)
Surely children born in another country of parents from overseas should have dual citizenship - it should be a condition when people emigrate. The citizenship should be made up of place of birth of the child and homeland/nationality of the parents and the biological and cultural roots/history involved.

So if said child commits heinous crimes in the country of their birth they can be deported back to their parents/grandparents homeland where their biological and cultural roots lie, not to mention their obvious religous and emotional ties. If they have dual citizenship the other country involved cannot refuse to take them back.

That way it places some accountability and responsibility onto the parents and the child to respect and value the country that has taken them in and to realise there are potential consequences for severe abuse of their citizenship.

And how many generations would you suggest this should last? Does it only apply to middle-eastern people or to everyone? Could I be deported to Ireland because I have a great-grandparent on my father's side who was from Ireland? Could I be deported to a Scandinavian country because, somewhere way down the line, I have a little bit of Viking blood? :think:

user104658 08-06-2017 08:57 AM

By the way,

Quote:

they can be deported back to their parents/grandparents homeland where their biological and cultural roots lie
ARE you aware how close you are edging towards white supremacist rhetoric?

Kazanne 08-06-2017 08:58 AM

Well as Piers Morgan was saying yesterday,we can ban football hooligans from travelling abroad and ban them from places etc,so why cant the same be done for these murdering scumbags?

user104658 08-06-2017 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazanne (Post 9342645)
Well as Piers Morgan was saying yesterday,we can ban football hooligans from travelling abroad and ban them from places etc,so why cant the same be done for these murdering scumbags?

We can't deport them to the homelands of their ancestors, as far as I'm aware :umm2:.

Vanessa 08-06-2017 09:02 AM

All suspected terrorists should e deported before they strike. They shouldn't be allowed to stay if they have extremist views.


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