''The researchers released their finding as an “exclusive” to a single news source – Buzzfeed – on Friday which then presented the findings with a heavy dose of analysis from one of the authors but with no substantive explanation of the methodology.

Buzzfeed also presented the findings in a series of charts which gave the appearance that they were showing levels of support for various propositions in the manner of a conventional opinion poll. Confusion was added by the fact that the headline findings presented by Buzzfeed did pertain to rough percentages of the population.

The result was that most journalists - including the Independent's - followed up the Buzzfeed story without fully grasping the methodology.

The researchers did make details of their methodology available on Friday and Saturday to journalists that requested it.

Yet they did not publish the full document online until Sunday afternoon, meaning that for the best part of two days statisticians and the general public were unable to access it and had to rely on partial and flawed media reports.''


In other words, it's total bollocks.

http://www.independent.co.uk/infact/...-a7892216.html

Same thing really, try the Oxford English Dictionary where it points out this is via a majority. You are going to inflate my ego if you keep singling me out to dissect everything I say. :wavey:

You asked for a dictionary definition, I gave you one, don't shoot the messenger.

I didn't ask but thanks for making me feel super important and special and pointing out the impact I have on you with my posts.

It's not out of context at all. You believe that opposing Brexit is undemocratic. You are incorrect.

Yeah I really am ****ing sick of the 'you have no respect for democracy' crap. The irony is that in expressing that, one is...not respecting other people's democratic right to freedom of speech, expression and to protest :laugh2:

Democracy does not begin and end at the ballot box. We have referenda and elections and parties and outcomes win and lose. That doesn't mean that all opposition must then be silenced, because in a democracy people are entitled to disagree and continue to campaign for what they believe in. Indeed, everyone's favourite Champion of the People Wanker-Banker Nigel Farage said in the days before the referendum that a 52/48 victory for remain would be 'unfinished business'. It's convenient how people who voted to leave forget that :hehe:

This is where you have a problem because I have never said that or anything like it so you are misquoting me. :shrug: It was another poster who stated it was undemocratic unless there is a second referendum. I have no issues with people in opposition or campaigning but suggesting we should keep voting until we get the answer you want is certainly not democracy.

What I do believe is that it is undemocratic to demand another referendum if you don't like the result but that seems to be a core of Scottish politics so maybe that's why you are supporting that view. I also believe it is undemocratic to put our country into a political experiment and putting treaties into law without asking the people who signed up for a trading market once in 40 years. Not to mention unelected officials making laws for us from Brussels.

Democracy isn't something you can shape so it only works for your point of view. Before you start your rant actually read who brought up democracy and in what context. No one has ever said there should be no campaigning. I don't care what Farage said or didn't say he is no longer relevant.

You suggested queries were taken up with a dictionary... I did that, it didn't correspond with your definition.

It's a debate, your posts are as important as the next persons, no more no less.

You are kidding me?!? Just because I support a lot of Corbyn politics doesn't mean I agree with everything he does. I'm left leaning and I take an active interest in politics from both sides... that's it!

As for your following sentence, it comes without content... its just waffle.

Oh you are suggesting democracy is decided by the minority vote then? I had no idea it worked that way. Thanks for educating us all and here I was thinking a first past the post system had been working in this country for generations. :shrug:

I think, like usual, you completely misunderstood his post because you saw what you wanted to see and not what he actually wrote. You also don't understand democracy. People ARE allowed to change their minds, hell we changed our minds about staying in the EU with this referendum, did we not?

Democratic decisions aren't written in stone, if that was the case then why have an election every few years? It's so we can change our minds about the leadership if we wish to do so.

You believe that someone not being happy about a result is 'undemocratic' which is quite simply bull**** and it's just you trying to silence opposing opinions again. People are allowed to be unhappy and voice their opinions, people are allowed to ask for another referendum and, if enough people agree to it then it should go ahead as that's pretty much how the first referendum came to be. You only seem to believe in your own warped version of what democracy is when it suits your agenda, you aren't willing to extend the same rights that allowed this referendum to occur to people of an oposing point of view.

I personally don't want another referendum. They say that, if a dog makes a mess, you should rub their nose in it and they'll learn not to do it again. The Leavers made a catastrophic decision and they should be made to experience the messy results of their terrible choices. Leavers shouldn't get a get out of jail free card in the form of another referendum. They ****ed up, they pay the price. The UK on the brink of collapse will hopefully get people to be smarter when it comes to political choices in the future.

It's endlessly hypocritical, they want the benefits of freedom of speech, expression and all those other rights....just as long as it doesn't apply to people who don't share their point of view.

I haven't suggested anything , you're putting words in my mouth :nono:

Frequently repeating a vote until the outcome changes would be undemocratic. Holding a second vote after sufficient time for dust to settle, and if there is an indication that there may have been a shift in public opinion, is ENTIRELY democratic.

You would have a point if there were to be 3 "out" votes with repeated votes, then one "in" vote and they stop. In fact, ONE follow up vote showing the same result should be sufficient to prove that the result truly reflects the situation.

But if a slim out vote was to be followed up by a resounding in vote? How is it in any way democratic to go with the result of one just because "it was first!". It's very childish, "finders-keepers!" logic.

Because when I voted out, I believed ‘Brexit meant Brexit’ but in the aftermath of that vote, we’ve all had the opportunity to educate, speculate and discuss the sort of relationship we want to keep or abandon with Europe. There’s a myriad of possibilities and those possibilities are now categorized as hard or soft options.

What has become clear is, we are about to jump from one ship and join another. We are swapping one trade deal with the EU for another with America but this new trade deal is much bigger and much more ominous than anything we’ve ever had with the EU. The only way we can shake hands with Trump is to abandon all free trade with Europe. That’s the ‘hard’ option... the one you want and the one I don't want.

I never said the Cons did badly because of Brexit :conf: I suggested voters don't like the way we are being frog marched out without a deal that will best suit our economy.

The Independent, what a surprise. Biased rubbish.

It was reported by The Independent and numerous other papers but the source came from Buzzfeed https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/r...pjj#.ax5B6YMYY

It is a legitimate source and probably not one you wanted because it exposes quite a number of things.

If you believed Brexit was Brexit then you should understand that Brexit means British exit. You exit by leaving with both feet and closing the door behind you, you don't exit by leaving the door open and standing in the doorway.

There is no hard or soft option there two options, stay or leave. We voted to leave.

It wasn't a lie though. It was made by Farage, who wasn't and isn't in a position to dictate policy. It was a suggestion.

:joker: yeah, your buzzfeed article gets discredited and it's the indys fault :/

Wrong AGAIN!!!! :shrug:
There was never the option or possibility of £350 million being given to the NHS but the Leave Campaign toured the country with a bus with this claim splashed on its side. Boris used it as an event backdrop. It was a ''suggestion'' that was based on fantasy and was never an option. It was a lie.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8DnEoHhD4...%2Bexcuses.jpg

100% correct Jaxie!

Remoaners just want to stall and reverse the process. The behaviour of remoaners over Brexit is sickening. They are determined to twist Brexit out of all recognition to get what they want and even attempt to deny their clear lack of respect for a public vote.

It is all about them and what they want regardless of the vote with the painfully weak argument that people didn't know what they were voting for. Cringeworthy!!!

From the Independent;

The Independent are the biggest remoaners of all. They twist for all they are worth to present 'journalism' of the one-sided kind.

btw - The whole article rather than a snippet would be preferable. Gives a clearer picture.

As far as i'm aware it was the whole article.

You're hardly in a position to criticize anyone's sources considering what you quote and from where. Buzzfeed my ass! :laugh:

We will not be leaving the EU in anything but a symbolical manner (if at all). Believe.
The government are going to take notice of the Banks and Industry over a minority of the British public.

You need to pay attention and stop being so pedantic. Do you want to discuss the realities of this political decision on how we exit and fruitfully exist outside Europe or do you want to continue pigeonholing the dictionary definition in an attempt to win an argument at any cost? If it’s the later then I refuse to entertain you further.

By ‘remoaner’ I assume you mean someone who wishes to remain? and as you quoted Jaxie’s reply to me, your reply, in part is at me. I didn’t vote to remain. I have no desire to remain or reverse the process.

Please explain what you mean by “they are determined to twist Brexit out of all recognition” Tell us what clarity we had about Brexit before we voted and then think, if you can spare the time, how that process has changed. Of course people didn’t know what they were voting for. Some naively believed it was going to stop immigrants coming in! others, like me, believed it was going to halt America's shenanigans on our shores and some believed it was going to rescue our NHS and guess what, we were wrong. But even then, even after it dawned on us that we’d been had, most of us still accepted the democratic vote… but we did and rightly so, want a process put in place (at the time there was no real process. All of that came later) that would safeguard our businesses, our human rights, our children’s futures and a better future outside Europe. Don't you want that too.. don't you?

You may well cringe at these people, and you may have the audacity to call them names and spit your naive bile at them whilst appearing not to know or understand any of the complexities of Brexit options. You just want to walk out, close the door and be done and anyone who doesn’t think like you are unpatriotic, undemocratic and foolish.

Yeah right!

That was my first ever quote from buzzfeed. But the source is was taking its information from was good- hence why I quoted it.

As for the rest of it - wishful thinking?

The data was misinterpreted, strangely it was the very part you based this thread on that 29% of remainers now want EU members to leave... They don't.

Nice deflect. What has the dictionary got to do with it? I was discussing the realities of what it means to exit, which you voted for. :shrug: That's the reality it's not about how you exit. You exit and negotiate a new relationship based on the fact you are no longer a member. We exist fruitfully outside the EU in similar way to the rest of the world who aren't members of the EU. You don't have to respond to me to entertain me. The idea that because we are leaving the EU that children will have no future and business will die is just scaremongering.

Says who - the Independent? Gospel then.

No, the statisticians who have analysed the data sets ... You really mustn't let your prejudice against the Independent colour your view here brillo.

Didn't you get on a high horse about my opinion of voters? Do you completely lack any self awareness? Because acting self righteous over me saying that most voters vote in ignorance and saying that I shouldn't say things like that and THEN spouting that bull**** about Remainers is so hypocritical that I cannot believe you are unaware of it.

Don't take the moral high ground if you aren't willing to commit to it yourself, Brillo.

Maybe I have just decided to do unto others as they do unto me. What don't you like a taste of your own medicine? What a shock!

You talk of self awareness - really. You are the very last person I would take seriously when spouting a comment like that. :hehe:

Ah, so you take the moral high ground towards people you disagree with when it suits you but you never intend to actually hold yourself to those same standards. It's a bit like your attitude towards human rights and freedom of speech isn't it? You only want them to apply to people who share your views and no one else.

Trying to reflect it back at me doesn't work since I didn't get on a high horse and act offended in order to discredit opposing opinions in the first place but you and Jaxie did in response to what I said. Reflecting would only work if I took the moral high ground to begin with so commiserations on another failed attempt to one up me.

Since you brought me up while on your high horse, read everything you said and then apply to self.

Just accept that your realities are very different to mine. If you think walking through that exit door is all going to come together like milk and honey, just keep telling yourself that.

You take the moral high ground all the time - you just don't see it. It's that lack of self awareness I was referring to. :shrug:

And your obsessive prejudice against the Mail!!! You even wanted to ban it from the forum. Pot and kettle! :shrug: